Interesting Pro Game with L&D Problem
Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 1:47 pm
by judicata
Some friends and I recently reviewed the interesting game below between Kiwada Kazuomi (1p, white) and Ando Kazushige (3p) from January 2009. There was one exchange in particular I found very interesting, and I'd like to hear from others.
First question: Following the sequence to 8, what is the status of white's lower right group?
White takes the Ko first with the marked stone, and lets the group go in the following sequence:
at 
.
So what do you think? Did this end quickly in resignation? Who won? Did W make a huge mistake in not making a bigger ko threat, or letting the group die? Before answering, consider the status of Black's upper middle group.
Result:
First question: Following the sequence to 8, what is the status of white's lower right group?
$$Bc Pro Game
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . X X . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . X . O X X . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X , O 2 O X . O O O . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X X . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . X . X O . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . X O X X X O . . O X O X O . X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O O . . O . 8 . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . X 3 7 |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O 4 5 |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . 6 |
$$ | . O O O . X . . X X O O X X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . O . O O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . X O . O O X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . X X . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . X . O X X . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X , O 2 O X . O O O . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X X . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . X . X O . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . X O X X X O . . O X O X O . X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O O . . O . 8 . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . X 3 7 |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O 4 5 |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . 6 |
$$ | . O O O . X . . X X O O X X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . O . O O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . X O . O O X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Pro Game
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . X X . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . X . O X X . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X , O 2 O X . O O O . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X X . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . X . X O . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . X O X X X O . . O X O X O . X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O O . . O . 8 . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . X 3 7 |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O 4 5 |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . 6 |
$$ | . O O O . X . . X X O O X X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . O . O O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . X O . O O X X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Does black's marked stone reveal a blunder by white? This created a really interesting L&D problem. My friends and I thought for awhile of how white could respond, and whether this meant W's resignation. See next hidden section.
$$Bc Blunder?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . X X . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . X . O X X . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X , O O O X . O O O . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X X . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . X . X O . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . X O X X X O . . O . O X O . X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O O . . O . O . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X X |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . O |
$$ | . O O O . X . . X X O O X X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . O . O O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . X O . O O X X X . . # . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . X X . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . X . O X X . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X , O O O X . O O O . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X X . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . X . X O . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . X O X X X O . . O . O X O . X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O O . . O . O . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X X |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . O |
$$ | . O O O . X . . X X O O X X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . O . O O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . X O . O O X X X . . # . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Blunder?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . X X . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . X . O X X . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X , O O O X . O O O . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X X . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . X . X O . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . X O X X X O . . O . O X O . X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O O . . O . O . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X X |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . O |
$$ | . O O O . X . . X X O O X X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . O . O O X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . X O . O O X X X . . # . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
W gets Ko with the sequence below. And then I think it gets interesting.
$$Bc Ko
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . X X . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . X . O X X . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X , O O O X . O O O . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X X . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . X . X O . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . X O X X X O . . O . O X O . X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O O . . O . O . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X X |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O 5 O |
$$ | . O O O . X . . X X O O X X X X O 4 3 |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . O . O O X O O O 8 7 |
$$ | . . . . O X . X O . O O X X X . 2 1 6 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . 9 |
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . X X . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . X . O X X . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X , O O O X . O O O . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X X . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . X . X O . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . X O X X X O . . O . O X O . X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O O . . O . O . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X X |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O 5 O |
$$ | . O O O . X . . X X O O X X X X O 4 3 |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . O . O O X O O O 8 7 |
$$ | . . . . O X . X O . O O X X X . 2 1 6 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . 9 |
$$ ---------------------------------------
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Ko
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . X X . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . X . O X X . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X , O O O X . O O O . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X X . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . X . X O . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . X O X X X O . . O . O X O . X X . |
$$ | . . X O O O O . . O . O . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X X |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O 5 O |
$$ | . O O O . X . . X X O O X X X X O 4 3 |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . O . O O X O O O 8 7 |
$$ | . . . . O X . X O . O O X X X . 2 1 6 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . 9 |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
White takes the Ko first with the marked stone, and lets the group go in the following sequence:
$$Bc Sequence of defeat?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . X X . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . X . O X X . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X , O O O X . O O O . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X X . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . X . X O . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . X O X X X O 2 . O . O X O . X X . |
$$ | . 6 X O O O O 1 . O . O . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . O . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X X |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O 3 W |
$$ | . O O O . X . . X X O O X X X X O O X |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . O . O O X O O O O X |
$$ | . . . . O X . X O . O O X X X . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X |
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . X X . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . X . O X X . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X , O O O X . O O O . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X X . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . X . X O . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . X O X X X O 2 . O . O X O . X X . |
$$ | . 6 X O O O O 1 . O . O . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . O . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X X |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O 3 W |
$$ | . O O O . X . . X X O O X X X X O O X |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . O . O O X O O O O X |
$$ | . . . . O X . X O . O O X X X . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X |
$$ ---------------------------------------
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Sequence of defeat?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . X X . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . X . O X X . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . X , O O O X . O O O . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X X . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . X . X O . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . X O X X X O 2 . O . O X O . X X . |
$$ | . 6 X O O O O 1 . O . O . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . O . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O O X O . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X X |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O 3 W |
$$ | . O O O . X . . X X O O X X X X O O X |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . O . O O X O O O O X |
$$ | . . . . O X . X O . O O X X X . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . X |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
at .So what do you think? Did this end quickly in resignation? Who won? Did W make a huge mistake in not making a bigger ko threat, or letting the group die? Before answering, consider the status of Black's upper middle group.
Result:
Black wins by 0.5 points. Black's upper group is dead.