Life In 19x19

I'm referring to players who choose to hold and place the stones using nonstandard form...for instance, holding a stone by the forefinger, middle finger on the bottom and thumb on the top and then placing this stone on the board. Is this allowed or is it considered impolite or forbidden?

It might be seen as the mark of a beginner or internet-only player, but there's nothing to stop you from holding them however you like.

Most go players carry a sword for just these reasons....

I might or might not have a necklace of thumbs...

Seriously though, it's not impolite, it's just an awkward way to hold a stone.

the Seattle Go Center has a rule that they read out for every tournament about "sliding stones"

its a bit of a silly rule, if you ask me, but its original intent was against kids who couldn't decide where they wanted to play, so without taking their finger off the stone, would "try it out" in different places by sliding it all around the board.

I imagine it would be hard to get kids to stop sliding stones when they do it all the time in Hikaru no Go

shapenaji wrote:
Seriously though, it's not impolite, it's just an awkward way to hold a stone.

Since shapenaji an I have been getting along so well lately, I will argue with this essentially correct statement.

Obviously, a true beginner, or an internet only player, will have, hopefully brief, difficulty mastering the skill of placing the stone. One can only do one's best, and, therefore, such awkward efforts cannot be deemed intentionally rude, but they are not polite either.

Proper placement of go stones goes beyond the elegant two finger snap into place. It entails the entire process, which should be decisive, not rattling the stones in bowl, clicking them against the bowls side, turning them over on the table, but taking one and deliberately placing it in such a way that it only briefly and necessarily obscures the vision of the board and does not disturb the stones in place.

The ham fisted grabbing of stone will invariably rattle, the claw of fingers will linger longer and larger obscuring the board and will increase the chance of disturbing stones.

Like many understandable deviations from form by beginners - swerving slightly right before making a left hand turn, putting turn signals on only after they have slowed down etc. - they are wrong for reasons - and if we are all paying attention, and charitable in our nature, they are forgivable, but I would still argue it is impolite not to make a point of doing things right.

Note I am not referring to random traditions or affectations. We are beyond bowing to your opponent, though I think some gesture, grunt or abbreviation of "good game" is appropriate. Black placement of his first move in the upper right is nice, but any actual necessity is lost in a world of games amongst equals who are allowed to be left handed.

This game is just a game, but it is time spent together, and we should strive to demonstrate the correct attitude.

And I will share the comment of one opponent who, when he disturbed the board position and I commented "You are far too strong to not know how to hold the stones" replied "I know, I just do this because it irritates people". I am confident he is the exception.

The skill is easy to master, as evidenced by my laughing 3 year old, who burst into chortles when she realized that she was picking up the goldfish (crackers not fish) from the bowl as if they were go stones.

You may want to look at the way the Korean player in http://www.gogod.co.uk/NewInGo/NewInGo.htm, number 39, is playing his move.

Best wishes.

People who don't play go face-to-face over a board may not realize that there is a lot of body language involved. There is a Japanese word, tetsuki, for the way a stone is placed on the board. See this page on SL: http://senseis.xmp.net/?TeTsuki

as I've probably now recorded more games than I've played, I've seen many ways to hold and place a stone.

one habit that irritates me as a recorder is when players continually reach out to straighten various stones already on the board. Especially when they first reach into their bowl, but don't pick up a stone -- I'm searching franticly to see if I've missed a move somewhere.

and player who reach out to straighten their opponent's stone as soon as its been played (and sometimes almost before its been actually played -- I once saw two players bump hands over the table for this very thing)

HKA wrote:And I will share the comment of one opponent who, when he disturbed the board position and I commented "You are far too strong to not know how to hold the stones" replied "I know, I just do this because it irritates people". I am confident he is the exception.

I have a friend who thinks there's an upside and a down side to yunzi stones. I like to play mine upside down just to irritate him

gowan wrote:People who don't play go face-to-face over a board may not realize that there is a lot of body language involved. There is a Japanese word, tetsuki, for the way a stone is placed on the board. See this page on SL: http://senseis.xmp.net/?TeTsuki

Is that page correct? I didn't think tetsuki itself was Go-specific.　

HKA wrote:Proper placement of go stones goes beyond the elegant two finger snap into place. It entails the entire process, which should be decisive, not rattling the stones in bowl, clicking them against the bowls side, turning them over on the table, but taking one and deliberately placing it in such a way that it only briefly and necessarily obscures the vision of the board and does not disturb the stones in place.

This ^^

Sadly, I'm a terrible fiddler with the stones whilst they're in the bowl person, making infuriating clicky rattling noises as I do it. It's a habit I really must break - it doesn't bug me when someone else does it, but I'm aware of how irritating it can be to some people.

I think ideally everyone should be able to handle sitting there, looking at the board, deciding when to move, and then picking up one stone out of their bowl and placing it on the board.

PS I also have a horrible habit of taking my next stone out of the bowl as soon as I've moved and sit there twiddling it in my fingers until it's my turn again.

PPS I think I must be quite an irritating OTB opponent in all honesty

As long as you don't take the stone out while waiting for an opponent and then throw it back in when it's obvious that they are taking a while to play. Not place it back in, but impatiently throw it.

I had a much stronger opponent do that to me so I would always wait until he put the stone back before playing my move.

Topazg, yes; very annoying. (OTOH, even some top pros do it. )
Keep both your hands underneath your hamstrings between moves.

EdLee wrote:Topazg, yes; very annoying. (OTOH, even some top pros do it. )
Keep both your hands underneath your hamstrings between moves.

Trust me, that's worse - I tried it and ended up rocking from side to side against my arms, some weird comfort distraction-prevention thing or something, I don't know. Generally I try to either sit there with my hands on my lap now, or slouch over with a thoughtful expression and my chin resting on one hand.

Ah, sitting still patiently is a highly skilled art I think.

HKA wrote:We are beyond bowing to your opponent...

I am not beyond it at all; in fact, I think bowing is very nice, and I like it a lot.

topazg wrote:Ah, sitting still patiently is a highly skilled art I think.

Ah. Which brings us to the recent Vogue video interview of Xie Yimin, the Women’s Honinbo Meijin in Japan.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzo9hUUwgFo
She mentioned when she first went to Japan to study as an insei,
she had to sit in seiza form for hours on end,
and she was not used to it at all, and both her legs and feet would get numb
(like Hikaru at his first insei application interview).