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tsumego (thx to explo)

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:27 pm
by cyclops
5 years ago explo published a series of tsumego problems. I just found them again. If there is enough response I will republish them here. For historical reasons I start with nr 17. Please mention the nr of the problem(s) you are addressing in the subject title.

November 21st
B to move.

17A:Elementary problem

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ------------
$$|....XO..
$$|..XXXO..
$$|.OXOO.O.
$$|OXXO....
$$|.OOO....
$$|........[/go]


17B:Intermediate problem

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ------------
$$|........
$$|.XXXO.O.
$$|.XOOO...
$$|.XO,....
$$|.OO.....
$$|........
$$|.O......
$$|........[/go]


17C:Advanced problem

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ------------
$$|.O..O........
$$|XOOO...O..X..
$$|.XXX..OOXX.X.
$$|XO.XXXO..,...
$$|.O.XOOXX.X...
$$|XXXX.........
$$|....O.O......
$$|.O.O.........
$$|.............[/go]

Re: tsumego #17

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:47 pm
by Uberdude
17B applied in "joseki" (I almost resigned in shame with that dango):

Image

Re: tsumego #17

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:08 pm
by jts
Is it possible you transposed elementary and intermediate?

The best I see for the third problem is a ko... F18 f17, e18 e17, d19 c19, f19 g18. If Wg18 instead of c19, b captures and w loses the race by a lot... A structural deformity at e18 reduces him to a 4-space eye.

Re: tsumego #17

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:08 pm
by illluck
Uberdude wrote:17B applied in "joseki" (I almost resigned in shame with that dango):

Image


LOL :bow:

Re: tsumego #17

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:22 pm
by topazg
My best guesses...

17A:Elementary problem

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ------------
$$|....XO..
$$|1.XXXO..
$$|.OXOO.O.
$$|OXXO....
$$|.OOO....
$$|........[/go]


17B:Intermediate problem

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ------------
$$|1.......
$$|.XXXO.O.
$$|.XOOO...
$$|.XO,....
$$|.OO.....
$$|........
$$|.O......
$$|........[/go]


17C:Advanced problem

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ------------
$$|.O.5O78......
$$|XOOO316O..X..
$$|.XXX42OOXX.X.
$$|XO.XXXO..,...
$$|.O.XOOXX.X...
$$|XXXX.........
$$|....O.O......
$$|.O.O.........
$$|.............[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ------------
$$|.O8X1XO.34...
$$|XOOOXXOO25X..
$$|.XXXOOOOXX.X.
$$|XO.XXXO7.,...
$$|.O.XOOXX.X...
$$|XXXX6........
$$|....O.O......
$$|.O.O.........
$$|.............[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ------------
$$|7OO.13O0XO...
$$|XOOO29OOOXX..
$$|5XXXOOOOXX.X.
$$|XO.XXXOX.,...
$$|.O.XOOXX.X...
$$|XXXXO........
$$|.864O.O......
$$|.O.O.........
$$|.............[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ------------
$$|XOO4XXOO3O1..
$$|XOOOOXOOOXX..
$$|XXXXOOOOXX.X.
$$|XO.XXXOX.,...
$$|.O.XOOXX.X...
$$|XXXXO........
$$|2OOOO.O......
$$|.O.O.........
$$|.............[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ------------
$$|XOOO.1OOC4X..
$$|XOOOO3OOOXX..
$$|XXXXOOOOXX.X.
$$|XO2XXXOX.,...
$$|.O.XOOXX.X...
$$|XXXXO........
$$|OOOOO.O......
$$|.O.O.........
$$|.............[/go]


Seems like a 4 step ko or something for White to win ...

Re: tsumego #17

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:25 pm
by Unusedname
17C

I think...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ------------
$$|.O65O7.......
$$|XOOO31.O..X..
$$|.XXX42OOXX.X.
$$|XO.XXXO..,...
$$|.O.XOOXX.X...
$$|XXXX.........
$$|....O.O......
$$|.O.O.........
$$|.............[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ------------
$$|.O.5O26......
$$|XOOO31.O..X..
$$|.XXX74OOXX.X.
$$|XO.XXXO..,...
$$|.O.XOOXX.X...
$$|XXXX.........
$$|....O.O......
$$|.O.O.........
$$|.............[/go]

eye vs no eye?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ------------
$$|.O..O46.7....
$$|XOOO215O..X..
$$|.XXX.3OOXX.X.
$$|XO.XXXO..,...
$$|.O.XOOXX.X...
$$|XXXX.........
$$|....O.O......
$$|.O.O.........
$$|.............[/go]


2 outside liberties vs 5 outside liberties

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ------------
$$|.O.5976......
$$|XOOO318O..X..
$$|.XXX42OOXX.X.
$$|XO.XXXO..,...
$$|.O.XOOXX.X...
$$|XXXX.........
$$|....O.O......
$$|.O.O.........
$$|.............[/go]

Re: tsumego #17

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:29 pm
by logan
I don't understand thread, but thank-you for posting tsumego problems : )

I would like to see tsumego forum here where people can post and solve problems all day.

Re: tsumego #17

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:57 pm
by cyclops
@jts : quite possible. The elementary one took me a few seconds; more than the intermediate. But I only copied them ( without permission ) from explo's previous threads in Godiscussions.
@uberdude: I imagined you were blond. Probably because of the "uber".
@logan: don't try to understand. I take care of the problems, everyone else ( except Sverre ) of the solutions.

Re: tsumego #17

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:55 am
by schawipp
For 17C I would try the following...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ------------
$$|.O65O.7......
$$|XOOO12.O4.X..
$$|.XXX3.OOXX.X.
$$|XO.XXXO..,...
$$|.O.XOOXX.X...
$$|XXXX.........
$$|....O.O......
$$|.O.O.........
$$|.............[/go]


...or the other way round:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ------------
$$|.O.4O..578...
$$|XOOO12.O69X..
$$|.XXX3.OOXX.X.
$$|XO.XXXO..,...
$$|.O.XOOXX.X...
$$|XXXX.........
$$|....O.O......
$$|.O.O.........
$$|.............[/go]


and then...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ------------
$$|.O.OO.1.2O...
$$|XOOOXO.OOXX..
$$|.XXXX.OOXX.X.
$$|XO.XXXO..,...
$$|.O.XOOXX.X...
$$|XXXX.........
$$|....O.O......
$$|.O.O.........
$$|.............[/go]


W seems pretty dead in both variations, please correct me if I'm mistaken.

Edit: I am obviously hallucinating in both lines, so never mind... :-?

Re: tsumego #17

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:47 am
by Sverre
cyclops wrote:I take care of the problems, everyone else ( except Sverre ) of the solutions.


What's that supposed to mean? :scratch:




17A:Elementary problem

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ------------
$$|.3..XO..
$$|1.XXXO..
$$|2OXOO.O.
$$|OXXO....
$$|.OOO....
$$|........[/go]


17B:Intermediate problem

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ------------
$$|1.32....
$$|.XXXO.O.
$$|.XOOO...
$$|.XO,....
$$|.OO.....
$$|........
$$|.O......
$$|........[/go]


17C:Advanced problem

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B 9@5, ko
$$ ------------
$$|.O65O78......
$$|XOOO31.O..X..
$$|.XXX42OOXX.X.
$$|XO.XXXO..,...
$$|.O.XOOXX.X...
$$|XXXX.........
$$|....O.O......
$$|.O.O.........
$$|.............[/go]

Re: tsumego #17

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:55 am
by Uberdude
Sverre, your solution to the elementary one is wrong.

Re: tsumego #17

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:00 am
by Sverre
Uberdude wrote:Sverre, your solution to the elementary one is wrong.



:oops: Wrong as in dead or wrong as in inefficient? :oops:

Is this better?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ------------
$$|....XO..
$$|13XXXO..
$$|2OXOO.O.
$$|OXXO....
$$|.OOO....
$$|........[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ------------
$$|.3..XO..
$$|12XXXO..
$$|.OXOO.O.
$$|OXXO....
$$|.OOO....
$$|........[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ------------
$$|.2..XO..
$$|13XXXO..
$$|.OXOO.O.
$$|OXXO....
$$|.OOO....
$$|........[/go]

Re: tsumego #17

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:27 am
by Uberdude
Wrong as in inefficient: living with 4 points in sente (well, maybe white doesn't connect but then you have a 7 pt gote yose for later) is unconditionally better than living with 3 points in gote.

Re: tsumego #17

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:15 am
by cyclops
Sverre wrote:
cyclops wrote:I take care of the problems, everyone else ( except Sverre ) of the solutions.


What's that supposed to mean? :scratch:



Well, you were the master solver 5 years ago, so you are discharged now. But OC you are most welcome to participate. I remember you solved most problems by :b1: at a18.

Re: tsumego #17

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:13 pm
by cyclops
Sverre wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B 9@5, ko
$$ ------------
$$|.O65O78......
$$|XOOO31.O..X..
$$|.XXX42OOXX.X.
$$|XO.XXXO..,...
$$|.O.XOOXX.X...
$$|XXXX.........
$$|....O.O......
$$|.O.O.........
$$|.............[/go]


What if :w6: at 7 in sverre's diagram?

solution: (?)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B continuation: b defeats this variant at 1
$$ +---------------------------+
$$ | 9 O 6 8 2 . 1 4 3 . . . . |
$$ | X O O O X X . O . . X . . |
$$ | 7 X X X O O O O X X . X . |
$$ | X O . X X X O 5 . , . . . |
$$ | . O . X O O X X . X . . . |
$$ | X X X X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . , . . , . . . |[/go]