Life In 19x19

Greetings Senpai,

I am fairly new to the game and trying to come up with a realistic and efficient study plan. I had 3 questions regarding - Books to study, lessons and realistic expectations for a beginner.

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This is what I have marked out for initial study at the moment (based on advice from friends at the local go club, SL and some of the posts here on L19x19):

Books and Tsumego
-----------------

1. In the Beginning (Elementary Go Series, Vol. 1) and then move to Vol. II, III.
2. Opening Theory Made Easy (Otake Hideo)- I have already "read" this till the strategy chapter, but I find that I'm still not following all the principle in my actual games
3. Fundamental Principles of Go, Yilun Yang
4. 4-5 Tsumego daily (Graded Go Problems Vol. I & II, Goproblems.com)- I have been working through this for a few weeks now.


Courses
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1. Guo Juan's online courses - I'm considering the one-year subscription. Is it worth it ? My friend has it and highly recommends it, but I wanted to get a more informed opinion.

Also, if any of you already have it, what would you recommend as an initial set of lectures to work through, for a DDK ? This is what I was thinking -

* Step-by-step course (15 lectures)
*Opening Training (maybe once I'm around the 5th lecture in step-by-step.)
*Middle Game Training (again maybe once I'm around 7-10th lecture in step-by-step.)


2. I'm fortunate to stay in NJ and near one of the places where Feng Yun (9p) offers group classes. Depending on how/if I improve I'm considering attending a group class in a year's time (It will probably be wasted on me at the moment =< and it's not very cheap as well ! )


Play
----

5-6 games a week (Online, maybe on KGS or IGS, & also at the local club)


Improvement Goal
----------------

Is aiming for a single-digit kyu in a year realistic ?


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I would be grateful for any advice regarding any of these.

It's not clear how diligently I would be able to stick to all of the above (except for a few Tsumego problems or some light SL reading at night, most of my free time is on weekends), but my plan is to do my best while still having fun.

Thank you in advance.

1. Guo Juan's online courses - I'm considering the one-year subscription. Is it worth it ? My friend has it and highly recommends it, but I wanted to get a more informed opinion.

I think it really depends on you. If you enjoy watching the lectures and watch a lot, it's definitely worth it. But if you don't enjoy it, or simply don't have much time, or prefer to spend your time on other study...it won't be worth it. Perhaps you could buy a few lectures and see how it goes, if you burn through them then the subscription might be worth it, but it would be a waste if you found you never got around to watching them.

If you do go for it, they're all categorised by level and topic and include suggested study patterns.

5-6 games a week (Online, maybe on KGS or IGS, & also at the local club)

I reckon playing is absolutely the most important thing, especially combined with reviewing your games - that doesn't have to be detailed, but at least click through them and remember the big points that you liked or want to treat differently next time.

Other than that, I recommend doing whatever you enjoy. If that's books, great, read as many as you can! If you like doing tsumego, super, focus on that. If you like Guo Juan's lectures, cool, go for it. Whatever you enjoy will be easy and actually fun to spend time on.

That said, the optimal way to study is almost certainly to play a lot of games (and reviews where possible) and do a lot of tsumego. The rest will help, but isn't actually important until a relatively high level. There's so much to see first!

Is aiming for a single-digit kyu in a year realistic ?

It's very realistic. The traditional goal that many people set is actually 1d in a year, which is a harder but not at all unreachable. Even with less free time, sdk is a good achievable goal.

Discipline wrote:


Improvement Goal
----------------

Is aiming for a single-digit kyu in a year realistic ?


******************************

Single Digit Kyu in a year is absolutely doable. Some people can make it to 1 dan in a year, that was my goal but I go busy in the second six months and stagnated.
It boils down to how much effort you put in to getting better. Playing games and doing go problems are the most reliable methods if you are consistent with them, but lectures and books can give you new ideas to play with which is necessary too. My recommendation is learn to have fun solving tsumego and get an app for your smart phone if you have one. Smart Go Kifu is good for iOS and easygo looks nice for the android(I've only seen screenshots though). I've done a lot more go problems then I otherwise would have since I could flip through a few in idle moments.
As Amnal said what you have fun doing is most important. It is very easy to burn yourself out if you study to much and then have to take a break from the game. Much more time efficient to enjoy the journey me thinks.

Discipline wrote:This is what I have marked out for initial study at the moment (based on advice from friends at the local go club, SL and some of the posts here on L19x19):

Books and Tsumego
-----------------

1. In the Beginning (Elementary Go Series, Vol. 1) and then move to Vol. II, III.
2. Opening Theory Made Easy (Otake Hideo)- I have already "read" this till the strategy chapter, but I find that I'm still not following all the principle in my actual games
3. Fundamental Principles of Go, Yilun Yang
4. 4-5 Tsumego daily (Graded Go Problems Vol. I & II, Goproblems.com)- I have been working through this for a few weeks now.

I don't know Fundamental Principles of Go, all others I know to be good books for a DDK. Don't rush to read too much too early though. My advice would be to go through Graded Go Problems 1 and playing lots 9x9 games at first. Then when you're through with vol 1, move on to 19x19 and vol 2. At that point you can have a look at either "In the beginning" or "Opening Theory made easy".

Courses

Can't help you with this one, never took any courses.

Play
----

5-6 games a week (Online, maybe on KGS or IGS, & also at the local club)

Also get those game reviewed as often as you can. Check out the Go Teaching Ladder.
In the KGS Teaching Ladder room, you can find teaching games rather easily. Always worth it.

Improvement Goal
----------------

Is aiming for a single-digit kyu in a year realistic ?

It's certainly possible.

It's not clear how diligently I would be able to stick to all of the above (except for a few Tsumego problems or some light SL reading at night, most of my free time is on weekends), but my plan is to do my best while still having fun.

You can hardly go wrong with that
And if you have little time, sticking to a minimum like five easy tsumegos a day is still way better than doing nothing at all. (It would certainly have made my own comeback easier if I'd had that discipline).

And if you want a game just ask!

On Books and Tsumego:
I wouldn't recommend going through the Elementary Go Series volume after volume.
In the Beginning might be quite nice to start with (I prefer Opening Theory Made Easy) but 38 Basic Joseki is actually - in my opinion - a pretty expensive book regarding its content had no impact on my game or level whatsoever (furthermore it's outdated and you will need a good Joseki dictionary later on anyway). Life&Death is a good book but it's far too theoretical and I would personaly not recommend to read it until you are a average single digit Kyu. Tesuji is a very good book but again, it's too theretical and hard unless you are a on the edge of single digit Kyu.
In general most of the book in the Elementary Go Series are aimed at single digit Kyu.

I then wouldn't recommend prioritizing textbooks about strategy are whatsoever. In my experience you improve much faster if you solve a lot of Tsumegos and Tesuji problems over and over again. If you have a solid reading (visualizing stones and Tesuji) foundation you can learn strategies and how to apply them easier (in my experience).

Greetings,
I am a diehard advocate of studying at the Guo Juan school. The lectures are fantastic and one learns so many fundamental things so quickly without the horro r of trial and error and confusion.
The one year subscription is fantastic value but I have one slight caveat. Take a look at some lectures first. Not because there is nay problem whatsoever, but consider carefully how much astonishing in depth material there is in them. Yo
u might find one particular ecture is worth watching five or sixxx times over one month for example. This is common I think.
Keeping that in mind, just how much time are you realistically going to spend every month studying there'd. It is hard work.That is how it should be but if you do the maths Iot may work out cheaper for you to pay n a case by case basis, giving you the freedom to work really hard ion a vacation and take it more rationally when working. There is a limit to how much one can absorb of this kind of deep information in one go. More is not always better.
Best wishes,
Buri

Books - you should, of course, do whatever you like best. If you're having fun studying everything will be for the best. But I think it makes sense to do 20, 50, or even more tsumego a day before you move onto books, if you like both and want to use your time efficiently. Graded Go Problems is good. I don't really like GoProblems. I think these BeginnerExercises are very good (esp. the first 100-200... the last ones aren't very well constructed) and also these (with no solutions): http://tsumego.tasuki.org/cho-1-elementary.pdf

Of the books you've listed, I think the EGS volume on Tesuji and Opening Theory Made Easy are best. Don't worry if you can't be true to everything in OTME - I can't either! Just keep reviewing your games and returning to the book to reread it occasionally.

Courses - I can't give you advice here. I tend to find real-time videos and lectures frustratingly slow. Have you watched any of the free ones on Youtube? E.g., google battousai or ponticello. That might give you an idea of whether you like the pacing of a video lecture.

Play is always good!

Goal - SDK in a year is extremely realistic. Shodan in a year is a common goal for eager beavers with a One-Year Plan.

Discipline, some fundamentals clips -- TianYuan Go basics

Discipline wrote:1. Guo Juan's online courses - I'm considering the one-year subscription. Is it worth it ? My friend has it and highly recommends it, but I wanted to get a more informed opinion.

Also, if any of you already have it, what would you recommend as an initial set of lectures to work through, for a DDK ? This is what I was thinking -

* Step-by-step course (15 lectures)
*Opening Training (maybe once I'm around the 5th lecture in step-by-step.)
*Middle Game Training (again maybe once I'm around 7-10th lecture in step-by-step.)

I have taken the bulk of my instruction from Guo Juan and I find it's helped a lot. The group classes for me have been even better than the videos, but the videos are pretty good.

I think though that her "Basic Course" lectures are much better than the "Step by Step" program. The steps program is fine for a few lectures, but it gets advanced too quickly for a beginner, imo. Also the "Basic Shapes" is suitable for beginners.

Thank you Amnal, Twitchy Go, Amelia, SoDesuNe, Buri, jts, EdLee and peppernut for all your kind advice and pointers.

Amnal wrote:I think it really depends on you. If you enjoy watching the lectures and watch a lot, it's definitely worth it. But if you don't enjoy it, or simply don't have much time, or prefer to spend your time on other study...it won't be worth it. Perhaps you could buy a few lectures and see how it goes, if you burn through them then the subscription might be worth it, but it would be a waste if you found you never got around to watching them.

Buri wrote:I am a diehard advocate of studying at the Guo Juan school. The lectures are fantastic and one learns so many fundamental things so quickly without the horro r of trial and error and confusion.

Peppernut wrote:I have taken the bulk of my instruction from Guo Juan and I find it's helped a lot. The group classes for me have been even better than the videos, but the videos are pretty good.

I signed up for the 1-year subscription at Guo Juan's finally. Enjoying the lectures so far. It took me a few minutes to calibrate to the accent, etc. (very minor) but find her to be a great teacher !

peppernut wrote:I think though that her "Basic Course" lectures are much better than the "Step by Step" program. The steps program is fine for a few lectures, but it gets advanced too quickly for a beginner, imo. Also the "Basic Shapes" is suitable for beginners.

Ok..cool ! Going to check them out today.

jts wrote:Courses - I can't give you advice here. I tend to find real-time videos and lectures frustratingly slow. Have you watched any of the free ones on Youtube? E.g., google battousai or ponticello. That might give you an idea of whether you like the pacing of a video lecture.

I had previously checked out some of the free lectures on YouTube by Nick Sibicky, Clossius and GoCommentary. I particularly enjoyed Nick's lectures; he had a very engaging style, spoke clearly and it was more directed at around my level.

EdLee wrote:Discipline, some fundamentals clips -- TianYuan Go basics

Ed, these look amazing ! I could follow some of it just by looking at the board, but alas without closed captioning I was lost on the actual commentary. Is this like the BadukTV for china ?

SoDesuNe wrote:
I wouldn't recommend going through the Elementary Go Series volume after volume.
In the Beginning might be quite nice to start with (I prefer Opening Theory Made Easy) but 38 Basic Joseki is actually - in my opinion - a pretty expensive book regarding its content had no impact on my game or level whatsoever (furthermore it's outdated and you will need a good Joseki dictionary later on anyway). Life&Death is a good book but it's far too theoretical and I would personaly not recommend to read it until you are a average single digit Kyu. Tesuji is a very good book but again, it's too theretical and hard unless you are a on the edge of single digit Kyu.
In general most of the book in the Elementary Go Series are aimed at single digit Kyu.

Ah ! This is good to know, my plan was to go through it one volume after another !

jts wrote:Books - you should, of course, do whatever you like best. If you're having fun studying everything will be for the best. But I think it makes sense to do 20, 50, or even more tsumego a day before you move onto books, if you like both and want to use your time efficiently. Graded Go Problems is good. I don't really like GoProblems. I think these BeginnerExercises are very good (esp. the first 100-200... the last ones aren't very well constructed) and also these (with no solutions): http://tsumego.tasuki.org/cho-1-elementary.pdf

Twitchy Go wrote:My recommendation is learn to have fun solving tsumego and get an app for your smart phone if you have one. Smart Go Kifu is good for iOS and easygo looks nice for the android(I've only seen screenshots though). I've done a lot more go problems then I otherwise would have since I could flip through a few in idle moments.

I got `Smart Go Kifu' and `Smart Go Books' and have been solving the Graded Go Problems Vol. I in the latter. Haven't started using `Smart Go Kifu' very much as of now.

A friend of mine gave me the 3 volumes of Cho Chikun's L&D encyclopedia, but I was planning to attempt these much later due to the apprehension that, without solutions, I may "think" I have solved something without having actually understood the correct move.

Amnal wrote:It's very realistic. The traditional goal that many people set is actually 1d in a year, which is a harder but not at all unreachable. Even with less free time, sdk is a good achievable goal.

Twitchy Go wrote:Single Digit Kyu in a year is absolutely doable. Some people can make it to 1 dan in a year, that was my goal but I go busy in the second six months and stagnated.

Amelia wrote:It's certainly possible.

jts wrote:Goal - SDK in a year is extremely realistic. Shodan in a year is a common goal for eager beavers with a One-Year Plan.

This gives me hope and motivation to work towards something SDK in a year

A good series i've seen some time ago which is "kind off" for beginners although it sometimes requires some reading:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beIZrHGVtyU

I just took 51 because it gives a good idea about what this serie is about.
Good/bad results on shape/fight/joseki. I recommend it.

Oh and another tip would be to study these tsumego's when you a get a little bit better:

http://weiqi.sports.tom.com/hubo/sihuoying-all.htm

They are great when on the barier of sdk.

Have fun!

Cheers,
Otenki

otenki wrote:A good series i've seen some time ago which is "kind off" for beginners although it sometimes requires some reading:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beIZrHGVtyU

I just took 51 because it gives a good idea about what this serie is about.
Good/bad results on shape/fight/joseki. I recommend it.

Oh and another tip would be to study these tsumego's when you a get a little bit better:

http://weiqi.sports.tom.com/hubo/sihuoying-all.htm

They are great when on the barier of sdk.

Have fun!

Cheers,
Otenki

Hey Otenki thanks. I hadn't seen these videos during my earlier exploration on YouTube. Will definitely check them out and the problem site looks nice as well (Google translate extension on my browser helped )

Hi Discipline

My views as a fellow beginner is any book by Yilun Yang (within reason) like fundamentals is a good place to start (I also have his workshop series and highly rate them).

I cant say about online lessons, as I havent had any as such apart from teaching games on KGS.

What I can recommend is getting on the mailing list for gogameguru, and badukmovies (!!). I went to a Go club recently and everyone from 18 Kyu to 3 Kyu highlighted that they improved ny looking at these (albeit you have to find the right films, at your pace!)

Tsumego is vital, i steered away from it for ages but the benefits far outweight the disadvantages.

Good luck and post again with how your getting on.

Regards

Mark