Page 1 of 2
connection/separation problems
Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:01 am
by entropi
According to Kageyama (and common sense as well), connecting your stones is much more efficient than making life with two eyes.
Then why are there more Life/Death problems than Connect/Separate problems?
In Gokyo Shumyo there is a section about connection problems but small and some problems too difficult. Is there a good problem book about this topic?
Re: connection/separetion problems
Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:13 am
by Tryphon
There are problems about this subject in "Tesuji" from James Davies (and even a complete chapter), "Making good shape", and most Tesujis problems books (501 Tesuji or Get Strong at Tesuji, IIRC).
Re: connection/separetion problems
Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:35 am
by Phelan
I remember Graded Go Problems for beginners having some, as well as Tesuji.
Re: connection/separetion problems
Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:42 am
by freegame
opening problems teach you to avoid to many groups on the board. or in other words connect things together, or avoid the need for connecting thing together by creating stable groups.
real connection problems can sometimes be found in tesuji or shape tsumego's.
Re: connection/separetion problems
Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 5:47 am
by gaius
Connecting your weak groups and cutting your opponents groups is a very important part of go, strategically. Kageyama is absolutely right in emphasising this aspect in his Fundamentals. The reason that there are relatively few problems on this is that it tends to be a lot easier than tsumego. Everybody knows how to cut a keima, you just push and cut, easy enough. In contrast, killing a random corner group can be tricky, and if you play the wrong move it can easily make 100 points instant difference.
That being said, there are of course positions where it is more unclear whether or not you can cut/connect. If you want to learn more about them, Tesuji by Davies is highly recommended.
Re: connection/separetion problems
Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:02 am
by entropi
Indeed, there are two chapters in Davies book about this topic. But too few problems (maybe 30-40).
The problem with the mixed tesuji books is that they don't allow to concentrate on one particular topic. I agree that mixed books provide a better "overall tsumego training" but if you want to learn more about one specific topic like that, you have to classify the problems yourself before starting to solve them.
That's the reason why I would like to have a problem book particularly on that topic. From some of my recent games, I had the impression that this is one of my weakest points to see whether groups can be connected or not (my other weak points being life&death, sense of shape, joseki, opening, middlegame, endgame, close range fighting, deep reading, wide reading, ko fighting and positional judgement

).
On the other hand, it is right that such problems tend to be easier but they can be provided as "status problems". Are these groups connected or not, or at which cost (letting an opponent group live, leaving bad aji, putting your own group into danger by a ko, etc...) can you connect them?
Re: connection/separetion problems
Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:14 am
by Magicwand
one tip...
if you fill dame and connect two group..you are playing it wrong.
it is like you lose your turn.
every move you make should have multi purpose.
one purpose of connecting two group is not what you want in a game.
that is why there isn't any connection problem.
Re: connection/separetion problems
Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:38 am
by Bill Spight
gaius wrote:The reason that there are relatively few problems on this is that it tends to be a lot easier than tsumego. Everybody knows how to cut a keima, you just push and cut, easy enough.
That's why we have the go proverb:
Push and cut a keima.
NOT!
Re: connection/separetion problems
Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:55 am
by dfan
There's also
The Art of Connecting Stones, which I remember being above my level the last time I looked at it.
IIRC it also had horribly ugly bitmap diagrams

Re: connection/separetion problems
Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 6:55 am
by Bartleby
The Art of Go Series Volume 1 - Connecting Stones published by Yutopian has approximately 160 problems on connecting stones. The problems range from pretty easy to really difficult. I would guess that anyone worked their way through the whole book would be pretty strong at connecting, but many of the problems seem to be dan-level.
Volume 3 of Lee Chang Ho's 6-volume Tesuji series in Chinese starts with 28 problems on connecting groups and 57 problems on splitting groups.
Rescue And Capture by Yang Yilun (also published by Yutopian) starts with 40 connection problems, and ends with 40 capturing problems. A number of the capturing problems involve a weak group in the corner or on the side capturing stones to connect out, so they could also be called connection problems.
I don't have time to check my whole library right now, but these are a few of the books that spring to mind.
Re: connection/separetion problems
Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:01 am
by tchan001
Yutopian used to sell a book called The Art of Connecting Stones, but unfortunately it seems to be out of print now. You can check out the entry at SL to see what it talked about. Maybe some members here might be willing to sell you a used copy.
http://senseis.xmp.net/?TheArtOfConnectingStonesI can't really think of any other go book translated into English which covers the subject of connection/separation. I think you'd need to look for an Asian language problem book if you want something in print.
Re: connection/separetion problems
Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:07 am
by gaius
Bill Spight wrote:gaius wrote:The reason that there are relatively few problems on this is that it tends to be a lot easier than tsumego. Everybody knows how to cut a keima, you just push and cut, easy enough.
That's why we have the go proverb:
Push and cut a keima.
NOT!
Of course the timing is far from trivial and requires deep consideration! But once you decide to cut a keima, there usually is only one way (maybe two, but for sure no more). But when you decide to begin a ko in a carpenter's square you have some reading to do

Re: connection/separetion problems
Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:18 am
by Harleqin
gaius wrote:Bill Spight wrote:gaius wrote:The reason that there are relatively few problems on this is that it tends to be a lot easier than tsumego. Everybody knows how to cut a keima, you just push and cut, easy enough.
That's why we have the go proverb:
Push and cut a keima.
NOT!
Of course the timing is far from trivial and requires deep consideration! But once you decide to cut a keima, there usually is only one way (maybe two, but for sure no more). But when you decide to begin a ko in a carpenter's square you have some reading to do

Perhaps you see what Bill's objection was when I tell you the real proverb is "strike at the waist of the keima."
Re: connection/separetion problems
Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:32 pm
by Dante31
You can find used copies of: 'The Art of Connecting Stones' on amazon.com
Re: connection/separetion problems
Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:40 am
by Bill Spight
gaius wrote:Bill Spight wrote:gaius wrote:The reason that there are relatively few problems on this is that it tends to be a lot easier than tsumego. Everybody knows how to cut a keima, you just push and cut, easy enough.
That's why we have the go proverb:
Push and cut a keima.
NOT!
Of course the timing is far from trivial and requires deep consideration! But once you decide to cut a keima, there usually is only one way (maybe two, but for sure no more). But when you decide to begin a ko in a carpenter's square you have some reading to do

gaius, I apologize for the tone of my note. But frankly I was greatly surprised to find a player of your caliber saying that pushing and cutting a keima is obvious.