Life In 19x19

Time to post a cool journal! I am playing go actively again, I was 2k-2D kgs before I took a hiatus, and I am now 1-3D or so? I am trying to reach 7D kgs before February.

My plans to improve..

- study pro games
- watch random lectures
- play and review my games (all slow)
- read lessons in the fundamentals again
- read some other go book I buy

Basically heavy on pro games and reviewing.. I have also started using a real board to play/review and it helps a lot. I think I might be stronger at real life go than Internet go.. But as I have never played anyone in real life..

Anyway when I get off this iPod and onto a pc I can update and post a few games.

Sounds like quite a goal, best of luck

paK0 wrote:Sounds like quite a goal, best of luck

Well.. Yea lol. It's hard but I want to see how strong I can become and what my true strength is. Good luck on your journal too by the way.

So I assume the daily 3 hours of tsumego were so obvious that you didn't feel the need to mention them explicitly in your study plan?

Also looking at the strong players on KGS, blitz seems to be more popular amongst them (and would allow you to play more games in general).

And even assuming you are a strong 3d on KGS, I think reaching 7d by February would still be quite the brutal goal. I suppose it should be possible if you can study 24/7 and do an insane amount of problems/games, but seems pretty tough.

leichtloeslich wrote:So I assume the daily 3 hours of tsumego were so obvious that you didn't feel the need to mention them explicitly in your study plan?

Also looking at the strong players on KGS, blitz seems to be more popular amongst them (and would allow you to play more games in general).

And even assuming you are a strong 3d on KGS, I think reaching 7d by February would still be quite the brutal goal. I suppose it should be possible if you can study 24/7 and do an insane amount of problems/games, but seems pretty tough.

I don't need to do any problems. The reason we lose to pros is usually not reading, but making a different mistake. If I can play correct go the I can make it.

Oh, young and naive! 7D on KGS would be probably the same like European 6D. 6-7 years is an absolute minimum to get there, but most of actual European best players get his 6dan after 8-10 years of hard work including insei training. So good luck with your plan

NoSkill wrote:I don't need to do any problems. The reason we lose to pros is usually not reading, but making a different mistake. If I can play correct go the I can make it.

90% of go strength is reading ability. IMO you will need to increase your reading depth by about 1-2 stones per rank for every dan rank. From where you are now, that would mean at least 5-7 moves extra reading depth.

HermanHiddema wrote:

NoSkill wrote:I don't need to do any problems. The reason we lose to pros is usually not reading, but making a different mistake. If I can play correct go the I can make it.

90% of go strength is reading ability. IMO you will need to increase your reading depth by about 1-2 stones per rank for every dan rank. From where you are now, that would mean at least 5-7 moves extra reading depth.

I really think spending time on life and death is useful if you are confident the rest of your game is pro level and your reading is holding you back. I have not seen a pro game where reading was so important. Anytime people usually say "wow pros are great at reading" it usually wasn't longer than 20 moves, but the IDEA was amazing. If you can have the idea.. The reading isn't the hard part.

However I think perhaps once I get to 5D I might need to do life and death, but we will see. I just don't see a reason for the life and death craze. If you read amazing but lack correct play you will be like a bot, it's better to play correct then improve reading once it is a problem?

Just my opinion

We'll certainly keep an eye on your progress to February to test your theory of how to study go. Good luck.

http://eidogo.com/#7IxXiKZY

Sorry I butchered the tree with misclicks on my iPod, not sure how to remove variations... I was black.

NoSkill wrote:I really think spending time on life and death is useful if you are confident the rest of your game is pro level and your reading is holding you back. I have not seen a pro game where reading was so important. Anytime people usually say "wow pros are great at reading" it usually wasn't longer than 20 moves, but the IDEA was amazing. If you can have the idea.. The reading isn't the hard part.

But amateur games are not won on ideas. At this point you do not need to improve your chance of finding a brilliant idea, you need to lower you chance of messing up. IMO, that mostly takes reading.

Anyway, 20 moves is way beyond the ability of all but the strongest amateurs. If you can reliably read 20 moves in any situation, you'll already be KGS 7d.

NoSkill wrote:
I really think spending time on life and death is useful if you are confident the rest of your game is pro level and your reading is holding you back. I have not seen a pro game where reading was so important.

Haha, omg, tou can't be wrong more .

I would like to see how you play a game with no reading. Are you a "montecarlo bot"?

NoSkill wrote:I really think spending time on life and death is useful if you are confident the rest of your game is pro level and your reading is holding you back.

How can you have pro-level fuseki and endgame (just to pick two) without pro level reading in those areas?

Boidhre wrote:How can you have pro-level fuseki and endgame (just to pick two) without pro level reading in those areas?

Actually, yose is strictly calculation based. Reading doesn't have anything to do with being good at yose (unless you make a mistake in one of your reductions). One of John Nash's associates was only a kyu-level player, but was able to beat profession 9 dans in yose because of his understanding of game theory. He would set up an endgame and play them first as black and win, then reset the board and play another 9 dan as white from the same starting position only to win again. If you understand yose well enough then you only need kyu level reading to do well.

As for fuseki, it is easy to work out where your first 10 moves should be. Unless your opponent wants to complicate things in the opening (which, against solid, time-tested fuseki is typically bad) you can play a professional level fuseki every game as a kyu player. I play the Low-Chinese almost every game. I know how it is supposed to be used and what the normal continuations are. I've also read The Direction of Play, so I have a fair idea of how to evaluate what part of the board should be the focus of my next move in the opening. My reading doesn't need to be that deep for me to make a move that a professional might play during the fuseki. There's a chance that if you took one of my games and put it next to a professional game, both after only 15 moves, that you couldn't tell a difference in skill. I once impressed a KGS 5 dan with my opening ability (if I remember right he said it was "spot on"), only to have him be very disappointed by my mid-game reading.

Good theory can sometimes cover up a lack of reading ability.

moyoaji wrote:

Boidhre wrote:How can you have pro-level fuseki and endgame (just to pick two) without pro level reading in those areas?

Actually, yose is strictly calculation based. Reading doesn't have anything to do with being good at yose (unless you make a mistake in one of your reductions). One of John Nash's associates was only a kyu-level player, but was able to beat profession 9 dans in yose because of his understanding of game theory. He would set up an endgame and play them first as black and win, then reset the board and play another 9 dan as white from the same starting position only to win again. If you understand yose well enough then you only need kyu level reading to do well.

As for fuseki, it is easy to work out where your first 10 moves should be. Unless your opponent wants to complicate things in the opening (which, against solid, time-tested fuseki is typically bad) you can play a professional level fuseki every game as a kyu player. I play the Low-Chinese almost every game. I know how it is supposed to be used and what the normal continuations are. I've also read The Direction of Play, so I have a fair idea of how to evaluate what part of the board should be the focus of my next move in the opening. My reading doesn't need to be that deep for me to make a move that a professional might play during the fuseki. There's a chance that if you took one of my games and put it next to a professional game, both after only 15 moves, that you couldn't tell a difference in skill. I once impressed a KGS 5 dan with my opening ability (if I remember right he said it was "spot on"), only to have him be very disappointed by my mid-game reading.

Good theory can sometimes cover up a lack of reading ability.

Yose requires reading ability; you need to be able to tell what will happen if you ignore this move, if that move against the corner is sente, etc. Also, if I complicate things in the opening, it will turn out badly for me only if you are able to refute my complication, which takes reading.