How much would go change if diagonal stones were adjacent?
Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:06 pm
How much would go change if diagonal stones were considered adjacent?
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How much would go change if diagonal stones were adjacent?
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Re: How much would go change if diagonal stones were adjacte
Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:30 pm
It would be just about impossible as every stone not on the edge would have eight liberties.
Re: How much would go change if diagonal stones were adjacte
Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:42 pm
DrStraw wrote:It would be just about impossible as every stone not on the edge would have eight liberties.
I don't think this would be much of an issue - it would be just harder to kill stones so you capture less on average during the game.
Instead, the considerations here would be:
1. How would a KO look like? and
2. You would have to spend a few more moves to secure areas (so securing areas would get harder).
3. Same (#2) also goes for eyes of living groups - which would affect some/many joseki (obviously) and invasions (which would get harder, I think - but this might balance with securing areas being harder.)
But all in all, I still think we would recognize the game for what it is.
However, once somebody tries it, a whole bunch of other issues might pop up... I never did so I am not sure what else can happen. Play a game like that and find out.
3D Go would be much more tricky, I fear.
Re: How much would go change if diagonal stones were adjacte
Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:55 pm
Is 'adjactent' an English word? Unfindable in any of my dictionaries.
Re: How much would go change if diagonal stones were adjacte
Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:59 pm
MJK wrote:Is 'adjactent' an English word? Unfindable in any of my dictionaries.
Didn't even notice that - I just read it as adjacent.
Re: How much would go change if diagonal stones were adjacte
Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:21 pm
Bantari wrote:DrStraw wrote:It would be just about impossible as every stone not on the edge would have eight liberties.
I don't think this would be much of an issue - it would be just harder to kill stones so you capture less on average during the game.
Instead, the considerations here would be:
1. How would a KO look like? and
2. You would have to spend a few more moves to secure areas (so securing areas would get harder).
3. Same (#2) also goes for eyes of living groups - which would affect some/many joseki (obviously) and invasions (which would get harder, I think - but this might balance with securing areas being harder.)
But all in all, I still think we would recognize the game for what it is.
However, once somebody tries it, a whole bunch of other issues might pop up... I never did so I am not sure what else can happen. Play a game like that and find out.
3D Go would be much more tricky, I fear.
Effectively no more ladders, and there is no longer such a thing as a cross cut... the concept of a hane is lost too, as it is now just another stretch (albeit a strange one).
Re: How much would go change if diagonal stones were adjacte
Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:32 pm
Bantari wrote:...[what]...would a KO look like?...
To the best of my calculations, a ko no longer exists.
Re: How much would go change if diagonal stones were adjacte
Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:11 pm
Capturing a single stone would be like this presumably.
Re: How much would go change if diagonal stones were adjacte
Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:01 pm
I think seki will happen a lot more often.
Re: How much would go change if diagonal stones were adjacte
Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:14 pm
Joaz Banbeck wrote:I think seki will happen a lot more often.
More problematically, no more false eyes. There goes 95% of the sub 15k tsumego.
Re: How much would go change if diagonal stones were adjacte
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 2:34 am
Joaz Banbeck wrote:Bantari wrote:...[what]...would a KO look like?...
To the best of my calculations, a ko no longer exists.
Indeed, any stone causing a capture would need to be connected to at least one other stone of the same color...so ko goes out the window pretty quickly.
Re: How much would go change if diagonal stones were adjacte
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:07 am
Boidhre wrote:...no more false eyes. There goes 95% of the sub 15k tsumego.
There should be more false eyes. The problems just change.
EDIT: in the center of the board, an eye is now 16 times harder to make. On the side, it is 4 times harder. In the corner, twice.
Re: How much would go change if diagonal stones were adjacte
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:10 am
Joaz Banbeck wrote:Boidhre wrote:...no more false eyes. There goes 95% of the sub 15k tsumego.
There should be more false eyes. The problems just change.
That's not a false eye. Well, not under the usual definitions I've seen for them.
I mean your diagram is analagous to this no?
Re: How much would go change if diagonal stones were adjacte
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:12 am
In fact, I would assume that in a game between competent players, the majority of the board would end up as a seki. Possibly the entire board.Joaz Banbeck wrote:I think seki will happen a lot more often.
Re: How much would go change if diagonal stones were adjacte
Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:35 am
hyperpape wrote:In fact, I would assume that in a game between competent players, the majority of the board would end up as a seki. Possibly the entire board.Joaz Banbeck wrote:I think seki will happen a lot more often.
I think that is probably true. Invasions are easy, so eyes are nearly impossible.
I tried a short game, playing both sides. The first player cannot make an eye with a 3-3 play because invasions are so easily connected out.
Actually, I would rephrase that as "... a game between competent aggressive players, the majority of the board would end up as a seki." It is possible that both sides would concentrate on their respective eyes first, then try to connect everything on the board to them.