Life In 19x19

Hi, I've just gone through the last couple months and tabulated how many games people have been playing on average and what % of them quit, and it looks like the league is going to hit a serious low point. We are down over 100 active signups from 6 months ago, and there are currently over 100 inactive people in the league (people who have not played more than 1 game per week). Why is the 1 game per week figure important? My research indicates that people who do not play a game in their first week have a very large (over 70%) chance of dropping out within a month; this appears to be increasing as we move away from September, so we are looking at a possibility of going into December or January with under 100 people in the league.

I also note we're months behind in prizes and stalkor has been away (at school) for something like 2 years now. I would really like to donate some money to the league if it would bring in more (serious/active) people.

The other side to that, is it so happens I am at the point where I am about ready to relaunch the "ASR School" -- to name it using the concept -- what my original idea of it was going to be, anyways. It will likely start up around Chinese New Year or a couple weeks after. Recently in a conversation with Andrew he asked me if I would be willing to work together on such a project. I said no at the time, because of how much money I was going to be putting into the project, but now I am not so sure. It is possible that we could work together. But I am a little leary of current management, actually Stalkor's "we" comment made me feel that current management has decided to institutionalize the league, and given the current status and direction of the legaue I am not so sure that was a good idea.

Stalkor/other admins, if you're open to discussing such a project I'd be willing to see how we can work together on something like this, but I believe the time has come to step it up and promote go and focus more on learning. So, ASR School. Good idea/bad idea?

usagi wrote:Hi, I've just gone through the last couple months and tabulated how many games people have been playing on average and what % of them quit, and it looks like the league is going to hit a serious low point. We are down over 100 active signups from 6 months ago, and there are currently over 100 inactive people in the league (people who have not played more than 1 game per week). Why is the 1 game per week figure important? My research indicates that people who do not play a game in their first week have a very large (over 70%) chance of dropping out within a month; this appears to be increasing as we move away from September, so we are looking at a possibility of going into December or January with under 100 people in the league.

I also note we're months behind in prizes and stalkor has been away (at school) for something like 2 years now. I would really like to donate some money to the league if it would bring in more (serious/active) people.

The other side to that, is it so happens I am at the point where I am about ready to relaunch the "ASR School" -- to name it using the concept -- what my original idea of it was going to be, anyways. It will likely start up around Chinese New Year or a couple weeks after. Recently in a conversation with Andrew he asked me if I would be willing to work together on such a project. I said no at the time, because of how much money I was going to be putting into the project, but now I am not so sure. It is possible that we could work together. But I am a little leary of current management, actually Stalkor's "we" comment made me feel that current management has decided to institutionalize the league, and given the current status and direction of the legaue I am not so sure that was a good idea.

Stalkor/other admins, if you're open to discussing such a project I'd be willing to see how we can work together on something like this, but I believe the time has come to step it up and promote go and focus more on learning. So, ASR School. Good idea/bad idea?

What is the ASR School exactly, and how do you envision it functioning?

skydyr wrote:What is the ASR School exactly, and how do you envision it functioning?

Well the idea behind reviews and teaching games was always that the dans lose out, there's no point for them to do it, which was the fundamental flaw of the KGS teaching ladder -- it wasn't a teaching ladder, it was a teaching pyramid, and it's lonely at the top. Which is kind of like what we have now. That is what I want to fix. The primary purpose of the league was supposed to be to identify who is teaching the most in the room (in theory, the strongest players in the "club") and then reward them. Theoretically, it would be easier for me to donate money to the ASR provided the prize structure be slightly rebalanced. There are a few other minor issues over prizes that would need to be addressed with an admin (Stalkor I guess) as well but that's the major one. We're going to need to be able to provide at a minimum, $500 in prize money per month. It needs to be guaranteed. That is the second major main issue -- sustainability. Right now there doesn't appear to be any sustainability. Which is what I would like to provide (either directly or indirectly).

About the school, the school is to bring those who are lower in the league up to par. So the school is on one hand a way for people to check for holes in their go skill. The main idea is to produce a set of self-study materials. For example, a tsumego package that you can use to study tsumego anywhere -- on your computer, phone or tab. This project is pretty much done, although there's some minor editing work that has built up over the past few years I need to look over.

Another package will be something like, 100 selected (and commented) pro game openings (i.e. the first 40 to 50 moves). These will be 100 games selected for their simplicity and ability to well-illustrate one main idea of dan-level play. Recurring themes will be common to kyu-level play, such as creating too many weak groups (not settling down before attacking), "following", and so forth. Another is a "reading school" with special "tsumego" I have been working on (and which I will require help to complete the collection) which will kickstart kyus in the right direction and show them what is possible. Something sadly missing in the west as a whole. I mean that. Western students really have no clue over that. It's a total black hole. Needs fixing badly.

I am also considering the creation of a "gokui club", which will be very mysterious. In which I am considering creating a culture of passing down go knowledge orally. Of course it would be on the internet so it would be in chat, but that's something that can be worked out later.

There are other projects that would be started that aren't convenient to discuss here but would be discussed with an admin later.

How do I envision us working together? The key is that there is a connection between the projects. I realize that stalkor may not want to bring me into "his league", I can accept that, but these projects will be similar in scope. So while on one hand it's "his league", it would have to be seen that once these projects became integrated with the league the walls would be melted considerably. That is an important consideration. But most importantly is how we work together. My vision is that activity in the league would be rewarded somewhat in the school, and activity in the school would be rewarded somewhat in the league. Students could get "gold stars", "silver stars" or "bronze stars" for participation in the school. These stars could -- for example -- be worth +3, +2 or +1 points in the league. Not enough to break the league (esp. with the majority of people participating) but enough to draw people in and give them a small incentive. Room winners could receive special favors from the school such as copies of smartgo or easygo, or another thing I am considering is having "review points" such that people in alpha accumulate "review points" when they give a review (these points slowly decay over time) -- and these review points could be used for special prizes like ipads, slate & shell coupons, etc.

So the basic idea is to create advanced study materials so stronger players get something out of it, and the creation of a kind of "good student" currency such that people who give reviews and participate in the school (these are the people who own the ASR, btw, ot the admins) -- will have access to special prizes, prizes interesting enough that we can attract strong players even who are there only for the prizes. Which it is hoped, will raise the bar and make something like a superleague possible naturally. Which is the only way it would ever be sustainable.

I'm also open to other ideas.

Sorry, it's unclear to me. Are you relaunching ASR with the blessings of the current admins, relaunching ASR without said blessing or doing something completely different (the tsumego packs etc vs just straight up games & reviews) and calling it ASR? Or does the name ASR have nothing to do with this?

Boidhre wrote:Sorry, it's unclear to me. Are you relaunching ASR with the blessings of the current admins, relaunching ASR without said blessing or doing something completely different (the tsumego packs etc vs just straight up games & reviews) and calling it ASR? Or does the name ASR have nothing to do with this?

I think it is pretty clear from what I said. I'm not calling anything ASR, for one. My plans are to make an internet go school which is a separate idea from a league. That was my idea 7 years ago too. What I would like to do now is just figure out if it should be done as part of the current ASR i.e. an "ASR School" kind of thing, or if it would just be better to do it as a separate project. There are going to be issues either way, simply because there will be a lot of money put into my project one way or another. I am just wondering what Stalkor's plans are for the league, if they're compatible great, if not I'll just do what I was planning to do on my own. The difference now will be, that the great ideas I had will be sustainable, that is the key to promoting go; it's like, simple question, one of many.. what's the ASR's advertising budget? It's zero... obviously... they don't even have a sustainable prize fund after seven years in operation. So when looked at it from that standpoint, the ASR isn't really much of an organization, I was always hoping that would change. I had always wanted to see it strengthen and become sustainable. That is what I feel needs to happen. That is what I am offering the ASR. Maybe what I could do is donate money to the ASR to have it run as a league for my school? I could guarantee doubling or tripling the current prize pool, for example, that would really help out with the ASR and draw in stronger players, which would in turn help my school. I think the idea of cross-promotion is a very interesting one and one I should not be so quick to dismiss. Which is why I'm posting here.

It's going to happen, it's just a matter of when. It would be very nice to be able to work with the ASR over this, because of the culture it has created on KGS.

I was curious about the name and/or affiliations because of the thread title and the forum you posted it in. Good luck with it, whatever way it works out.

usagi wrote:

Boidhre wrote:Sorry, it's unclear to me. Are you relaunching ASR with the blessings of the current admins, relaunching ASR without said blessing or doing something completely different (the tsumego packs etc vs just straight up games & reviews) and calling it ASR? Or does the name ASR have nothing to do with this?

I think it is pretty clear from what I said. I'm not calling anything ASR, for one. My plans are to make an internet go school which is a separate idea from a league. That was my idea 7 years ago too. What I would like to do now is just figure out if it should be done as part of the current ASR i.e. an "ASR School" kind of thing, or if it would just be better to do it as a separate project. There are going to be issues either way, simply because there will be a lot of money put into my project one way or another. I am just wondering what Stalkor's plans are for the league, if they're compatible great, if not I'll just do what I was planning to do on my own. The difference now will be, that the great ideas I had will be sustainable, that is the key to promoting go; it's like, simple question, one of many.. what's the ASR's advertising budget? It's zero... obviously... they don't even have a sustainable prize fund after seven years in operation. So when looked at it from that standpoint, the ASR isn't really much of an organization, I was always hoping that would change. I had always wanted to see it strengthen and become sustainable. That is what I feel needs to happen. That is what I am offering the ASR. Maybe what I could do is donate money to the ASR to have it run as a league for my school? I could guarantee doubling or tripling the current prize pool, for example, that would really help out with the ASR and draw in stronger players, which would in turn help my school. I think the idea of cross-promotion is a very interesting one and one I should not be so quick to dismiss. Which is why I'm posting here.

It's going to happen, it's just a matter of when. It would be very nice to be able to work with the ASR over this, because of the culture it has created on KGS.

Personally, I think you are having some pretty sweet ideas here.
With ASR or without, what you describe sounds really good. I hope you succeed in making your plans a reality.

I think a school like that, if I understand the concept correctly, is really needed and time has come when it might be viable too.
So - good luck, dude.