4-4 double keima approach disaster

[ShinLyuu]

Hello there, I started playing on Tygem again and in the process losing a lot of hair over unexpected moves that keep throwing me off over and over again. How should I play after white's E17? Just connecting seemed common sense to me, but that didn't turn out so great in the end.

Thanks in advance.

http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=4096

[EdLee]

Just atari C15 and push through in sente -- basic broken shape for W.
Later, after you make the C18-B18 exchange, you still have the double hane at G17.

The problem is not connect. You killed yourself with .
Important to distinguish the moves that are problematic from the ones that aren't.

[ShinLyuu]

So it looks ok like this then? Thanks for your answer.

http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=4097

[EdLee]

Yes, much better result for B than in the real game.

Also, the double approach has many variations -- have to look at the whole board. It's a lot of work.

[ShinLyuu]

I tend to screw up a lot with moves like 11 at the most crucial time of an exchange... ^^; Should I focus on tsumego, joseki or something else to get these kind of moves right?

[EdLee]

I tend to screw up a lot with moves like 11 at the most crucial time of an exchange... ^^;
Should I focus on tsumego, joseki or something else to get these kind of moves right?

I've noticed that this depends on the individual.
Some people can study and improve nicely all by themselves.
Some find a good teacher to be very helpful. (I belong to the latter group. )

[EdLee]

How should I play after white's E17? Just connecting seemed common sense to me,
but that didn't turn out so great in the end.

( my emphasis. )
Hi Shin, it turns out the - exchange is good for B, so you are happy to do it.
If you compare the variation where W hanes up at G16 on instead of pushing at E17,
B's shape is less solid than yours in the game -- the - exchange helps B get a nice strong wall.
Once again, important to tell the good moves ( connect ) from the less good ones.

[ShinLyuu]

Ok, next time I'll get it right and not lose so easily (I hope). Thank you for sharing your wisdom, EdLee!

[entropi]

So it looks ok like this then? Thanks for your answer.

http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=4097

But something seems to be wrong with this variation. Wg16 (atari) and then Wd15 would lead to complications. I wouldn't play double hane in this position.

[ShinLyuu]

Oh yeah, I didn't think of that, best to avoid the double hane before the shape D15 cut is fixed then.

Fantastic signature quote by the way.

[hyperpape]

I think Vlack can throw in at F18 to get the second line stone. I haven't read any way for White to gain from those lines, and Black's shape is a bit nicer, IMO.

[shapenaji]

yeah, there's no reason for the double hane in the final position... you already got value for your sacrifice