OCA's log

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:31 am

A few comments.

Some of the variations may be too much for you to read out during play, but I put them in to show you some possibilities.

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 2:00 pm

Hi oca, you're welcome.

oca · Post by **oca** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:36 am

@Edlee : that's right... 3-3 invasion as no chance to enter the bottom side... bad strategy here

In the mean time, I went to another game... so sanrensei again, and this time, that went...

: plane.png (121.36 KiB) Viewed 20675 times

I do not know when it started to be so wrong for me, but the sequence

to

seems not to be the better choice...

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:53 am

Hi oca,

was your first big mistake — why ?

oca · Post by **oca** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:55 am

EdLee wrote:Hi oca, was your first big mistake — why ?
Same note as in Post 5:
Please see Toothpaste, and small gaps.
Did you read those links ?

Well,.. Read... yes... assimilated...

Here are a few variations, starting at move 19 that may have been better I think :

[edit]
I just saw that in the first variation "not fantastic for me but still better.." white can do even better... so very not good for black...
[/edit]

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:53 am

A few variations.

ez4u · Post by **ez4u** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:05 pm

In your previous game you wrote that you are studying the san-ren-sei. In that case I think your

at "a" is already off the mark. Extending down the right side in front of your san-ren-sei and your opponent's shimari is clearly bigger than the bottom. You should be expecting something like the diagram below as a thematic development of the san-ren-sei. If you are not comfortable with this, then you should have already played

at 6 IMHO.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc San-ren-sei 'style' $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 3 . . . . . 5 . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 7 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . 4 , 6 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . a . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:01 pm

oca wrote:Well,.. Read... yes... assimilated...

Hi oca, you hit the nail on the head.
The assimilation, or understanding, is a continuum and a continuing process — it never ends.
Along the journey, we occasionally are rewarded with Eureka moments. Together with long dry spells.

About your

in the denizizmir game: I struggled with this kind of mistakes
for quite some time. And I know people (even at 3k) who have been playing for 30-40 years
and still don't understand it.

Enjoy.

oca · Post by **oca** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:52 pm

Bill Spight wrote:A few variations.

Hi Bill,
Thanks for your variations, I like

at O10 and your absolute

was my first instinct... but then feared

as I can't read the whole sequence (I can't read the whole sequence of "a" either... but I was feeling that I can connect the right side and the top more easily, the game just showed me that was not true.)

ez4u wrote: In your previous game you wrote that you are studying the san-ren-sei. In that case I think your at "a" is already off the mark. Extending down the right side in front of your san-ren-sei and your opponent's shimari is clearly bigger than the bottom. You should be expecting something like the diagram below as a thematic development of the san-ren-sei. If you are not comfortable with this, then you should have already played at 6 IMHO.

Hi ez4u, Sure !, this is exactly what happenend in my head... a confict between playing a sanrensei and that takamoku that I wanted to reply....
I choosed the sanrensei because I was thinking that I could approach takamoku later... and of course ... wrong

when my opponnent just played the following enclosure

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . | $$ . . O , W . . | $$ . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . | $$ --------------+[/go]

I was thinking "oh no... I wanted to play there later later... but you won't have the whole bottom !" and obsessed by the bottom and played

at K3 like if that was the only possible move...
A more peacefull thinking like "oh... you want the bottom ? just take it... I can still (try) to do bigger at the top" would have been better for me....

To comeback to the sanrensei, at some point in the game, I remember that I was thinking that this game doesn't looked at all like a sanrensei game... so I should have done something wrong at some point...

I think this sequence also killed it...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bm39 $$ ---------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 4 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . 1 2 5 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . 3 6 . . . . . . . . O . O O X . . | $$ | . . . @ . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . O , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . X . . X O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

: should be at

hane at the head of two stones in not so great here I think...

: Not sure about this one but a cut at "a" may be a least dangerous...

Finally, to come back to your diagarm, I would say I like your

, I never considered this move but I like the way it looks...

EdLee wrote:
oca wrote:Well,.. Read... yes... assimilated...
Hi oca, you hit the nail on the head.
The assimilation, or understanding, is a continuum and a continuing process — it never ends.
Along the journey, we occasionally are rewarded with Eureka moments. Together with long dry spells.

About your in the denizizmir game: I struggled with this kind of mistakes
for quite some time. And I know people (even at 3k) who have been playing for 30-40 years
and still don't understand it.

Enjoy.

Thanks Edlee, I wish I can apply all these things I have read... but that's not how it work... patience and tenacity are my best friend here I think.

Also my balance between playing / learning was too oriented toward learning, I'm happy as I find more time for playing these days...

oca · Post by **oca** » Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:09 pm

Hi, two games for me yesterday ! I'm black in both game.

Here is the first one, no san-ren-sei this time,

I think I'm still doing the same errors...
-

: S5 to separate white is better I think.
-

to

way to small is it ?

But ok, I won that one so I'm happy, and I somehow managed all these invaders at the end

, an exercise that I'm not really strong at.

I'm more interessed on game 2, an 8 stones handicap, where invaders killed me !

I handeled white 263 with success, but failed to reply to the final invasion at move white 279 and finaly lose the game (I think 282 at S6 may save the group ).

I'm still happy of my seki at 228, which finally was not a seki anymore...
I had a lot of fun in that game

Any comments very welcome.

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:32 am

Hi oca, game 1:

is thin. Jump 1-space to O4 is better.

does not work. The move is S4. Study this contact fight.

Ridiculous. Huge thank-you move. W should just block S5.

equally ridiculous.

There is only one move here.
See Post 5 again: same note, again. Find the only move here.

strange shape. What's your plan if W ataris Q17 ? (Did you read W Q17 atari ? )

to

is not small, but wrong technique.
Maybe wrong plan: what are you trying to accomplish here ?
Can you find the correct move, instead of your

?

bad shape: W hits the vital point, the elephant's eye.
See Post 5 again: same note again.

bad habit. Correct local move is just connect E2.

bad habit. You should have tenuki'd.

very bad. See Post 5 again, same note again.

same bad habit as

.

same bad habit as

.

oca · Post by **oca** » Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:53 am

EdLee wrote:Hi oca, game 1:
is thin. Jump 1-space to O4 is better.
does not work. The move is S4. Study this contact fight.
Ridiculous. Huge thank-you move. W should just block S5.
equally ridiculous. There is only one move here.
See Post 19 again: same note, again. Find the only move here.
strange shape. What's your plan if W ataris Q17 ?

Hi Edlee, thx for your comments !

is just a miss click...

ok... I will study that position

hmm I suppose S5 is the only move... At least I considered that move while playing, but for some obscure reasons, I remember very well that I was seeing the game like that at this point :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ ---------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Q . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . T . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . Q . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X a . | $$ | . . O , X X . . . , . . X . . X . @ . | $$ | . . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . @ . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . S . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

I considered

at "a" but I didn't like it as I was thinking that it did not helped that much neither the bottom nor the top/right. so I choose to help the top/right with both

at "b" and then

at "c" ... but I agree that was not a good choice... Next time I will separate

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:56 am

Hi oca,

Game 2.

bad habit: correct is capture directly. See also

in game 1.

wrong local move. Correct local move is just descend H2.

wrong for 2 reasons: locally, correct move is just connect solidly
at H2 (which is where

should have been, directly).
Globally, it is too small.

is gote — you should have tenuki'd.
Same bad habit as

in game 1.

no fighting spirit. Connect at J3 and fight!

What's the meaning of this move ? It's almost a pass.

almost a pass.

almost a pass.

This is a 8-stone game. You quickly passed 4 times:

,

.
Only 4 more passes, and you would have given all your handi stones
back to W.

is gote. You are super thick here.

no need to connect, but not a big mistake at your level.

almost a pass, your 5th. Why not reply at C10 ?

ridiculous. See Post 5 again. What's the correct local move ?

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:36 am

Hi oca, you're welcome.

oca wrote:I considered at "a" but I didn't like it as I was thinking...

One key thing for us to improve is to realize where our thinking is wrong.
Maybe now you start to see it for the local situation.

Uberdude · Post by **Uberdude** » Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:15 am

Don't forget to think about the basics: connect your stones, separate your opponent's.

Life In 19x19

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