Please Help me review

mogosoup · #1

Hi I'm not sure how this works, but could someone maybe give me some tips or comments.
I have been playing for 5-6 months. I am about 9kyu kgs

Also; who likes my avatar?

EdLee · #2

All Basics.

Joaz Banbeck · #3

6: I don't like letting black have P16 next move. Almost any conventional response with move 8 turns K17 into a good extension or a good pincer.
I'd be playing O17 here. ( This is mostly gut feel; I can't say that I am definitely correct. Maybe a stronger player can offer an opinion? )

14: This move MUST be at R4. Ed Lee shows R4, but, as usual, is too much a gentleman to tell you how wrong Q3 is.

When one player gets all of the territory in the corner, the other side usually gets to lock him in. It is a trade off, and if you look through the joseki books, you'll see lots of examples that the pros consider about equal. For him to let you get the corner territory AND get out into the center is a massive theoretical failure.

Also, from a tactical point of view, you really want to play R4. First, it connects your two stones. Second, it ensures that his 4-4 stone will have a very difficult time connecting to his friends.

71: You have a cutting point at D6, which remains though 10+ moves.

94 + 98: You want to protect D6? You can net a cutting stone at D6 with D5 and then F7.
But C5 is just aji keshi. You may want to leave it open so you can play moves like C3 and D2 later.

Look for bigger moves here. Something like K5 or L5 or L4 could be fun.

96: This is 1 point. He could tenuki. If you capture, he recaptures, and he has gotten a move elsewhere at the bargain price of one point.

99: He plays here first.

This is huge.

100: Good!

102: Too thin.

Dinner time...gotta go...

Moves like 14 and 102 suggest that you do not watch your connections. Change this one habit and you will be SDK soon.

mogosoup · #4

Thanks everyone

mogosoup · #5

Here is another one. Thanks you in advance.
I should probably post a game against a stronger opponent and a game that ended closer, but this is the only serious game i played this week

jts · #6

EdLee · #7

Joaz Banbeck · #8

Why is everybody putting their comments in hide tags? I though that the idea of game analysis was to spread information, not conceal it.

jts · #9

... to not stretch the thread?

When I decide to review a game on this forum I don't know whether I'll comment on one move or fifty, and whether they will be coordinate-long comments or fairly lengthy explanations. Are the hide tags inconvenient for someone?

cyclops · **#10**

I prefer long comments hidden and short comments unhidden so you might decide after typing the comment. Ctrl+A and clicking the hide tag does the trick. Soon I will shrink my avatar and the nonsense below it to save some space.

mogosoup · **#11**

I played another game. I made a big mistake. Please help me review.
Thank you!

mlund · **#12**

Take all this with a grain of salt - I'm not that good.

B9 - What motivates this move?

It doesn't occupy an empty corner.
It doesn't finish an enclosure.
It doesn't approach a corner.
It isn't a pincer or any sort of joseki.
It isn't an extension from the corner.

Yilun Yang's "Fundamental Principles of Go" Ranks the big moves in fuseki from 1st Class to 4th Class. There are no more First Class moves left - no empty corners. P17 is a Second Class move - completing an enclosure. Something around J or K would work well in denying the F16 stone its ideal extension and act as a potential extension from your corner. Heck, you could even play C17 and take a huge chunk of that corner while forcing White to settle himself on the top.

W10 says "thank you" for :b9:

- settling himself nicely while Black 11 just makes Black heavier for the severe attack that comes next.

W14 - Makes the stone at H17 green with envy for its position and this is even a Third Class Move or better due to simultaneously making White strong, making Black weak, and being a classic 2 space extension.

W48 - The Eye-stealing Tesuji. B47 should've been played here. It was urgent (or at least big). Now white gets to chase black all around while making his K14 group secure.

B67 - This feels like the wrong direction. You can't kill that group. It either gets to the bottom and lives or connects to K3 and lives. That means you are only attacking to gain profit from the survival of the weak group. Where is your profit? There's no territory in the center here. What about trying for a massive corner and chunk of the lower side? What happens if you instead attack at N3 or maybe even N4.

B75 - Empty triangle - was that an accident?

B83 - Double Hane at H6. Hane? Hane again! (Except when it doesn't work). In this case it works just fine - much better than a tower formation with a weak leg.

B175 and further - Good on you for not panicking and fighting to carve out this game-winning swathe of territory.

W182 - This at B10 seems to be the proper direction of play. Instead it looks like White wants to try and make less territory the hard way (IE - trying to enclose the center).

- Marty Lund

EdLee · **#13**

Marty,

mlund wrote:

B9... W10... W14...

It's not what you said. :b9:

through

-- it's OK for B. No big problems for B, certainly not at these levels.
The :w10:

-

exchange makes B stronger, and :w14:

and

make a kind of broken shape for W.

mlund · **#14**

EdLee wrote:

Marty,

mlund wrote:

B9... W10... W14...

It's not what you said. :b9:

through

-- it's OK for B. No big problems for B, certainly not at these levels.
The :w10:

-

exchange makes B stronger, and :w14:

and

make a kind of broken shape for W.

I guess I'm just not at a good enough level to see it. I always got the impression that kicking a stone was a much better deal when the kicked group would be easily denied a 2-space extension by the surrounding area.

I just see two stronger white groups developing around a black group with no base, no territory, and little influence. I'm not saying it's suicide or anything, I just see it as rather unprofitable for black at this point. I could see it as a perfecly fine reduction later on, but it seems way too premature when larger plays could be made, even in the same general area. Everything about it feels cramped and small.

I guess even White's plays there feels that way too me. Is there any great reason not to play White 12 at O17 and white 14 at L17?

- Marty Lund

jts · **#15**

mlund wrote:

I guess I'm just not at a good enough level to see it. I always got the impression that kicking a stone was a much better deal when the kicked group would be easily denied a 2-space extension by the surrounding area.

The complication with kicking is two-fold, I believe. First, the two diagonal stones are a weaker shape than the two straight stones (compare cutting the keima at the waist), so having kicked, you normally need to improve your shape. Second, if the two kicked stones get a comfortable extension they become very stable, so having kicked you normally want to pincer the kicked stones. But you can only choose one of these! (Unless you already have either an extension or a pincer in place when you kick.)

lightvector · **#16**

When diagonal shapes meet straight shapes in Go, straight shapes usually win.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W Case 1, straight shape meets diagonal shape. $$ ---------------------- $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . X . . . W B . . . | $$ . , . . . . W . B . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W White can often hit black's head $$ ---------------------- $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . X . . . O X . . . | $$ . , . . . . O . X . . | $$ . . . . . . . . 1 . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W Black is flattened to the second line. $$ ---------------------- $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . X . . . O X 6 . . | $$ . , . . . . O 5 X . . | $$ . . . . . . . . W 2 . | $$ . . . . . . . . 3 4 . | $$ . . . . . . . . 7 . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W Or black has multiple cutting points and a tricky fight. $$ ---------------------- $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . X . . . O X . . . | $$ . , . . . . O 3 X . . | $$ . . . . . . . 2 W . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B Black usually cannot hit white's head. $$ ---------------------- $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . X . . . O X . . . | $$ . , . . . . O . X . . | $$ . . . . . . 1 . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B Black is cut up. $$ ---------------------- $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . X . . . O X 4 . . | $$ . , . . . . O 2 X . . | $$ . . . . . . 1 3 . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

And also...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W Case 2, straight shape meets diagonal shape. $$ ------------------------------------ $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $$ . O . O . . . W B . . . . X . X . . $$ . . , . . . . W . B . . . . . . . . $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W White's invasion threatens connection under $$ ------------------------------------ $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $$ . . . . . . . . a . . . . . . . . . $$ . O . O . . . O X . 1 . . X . X . . $$ . . , . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W White connects $$ ------------------------------------ $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $$ . . . . . . . . 5 6 . . . . . . . . $$ . O . O . . . O X 7 W 3 . X . X . . $$ . . , . . . . O . X 2 4 . . . . . . $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B Black's invasion does not threaten connection under $$ ------------------------------------ $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $$ . . . . . . 4 3 . . . . . . . . . . $$ . O . O . 1 . O X . . . . X . X . . $$ . . , . 2 . . O . X . . . . . . . . $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

And also...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W Case 3, straight shape meets diagonal shape. $$ ---------------------------------- $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $$ . . . . . . . W . B . . . . . . . $$ . . , . . . . W B . . . . . . . . $$ . . . . . . X X O O . . . . . . . $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W After giving each side a few symmetrical moves... $$ ---------------------------------- $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $$ . . O . . . . O . X . . . X . . . $$ . . , . O O . O X . X X . . . . . $$ . . . . . X X X O O O . . . . . . $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W White's territory on the top is larger $$ ---------------------------------- $$ . . . C C C C . . . C C C . . . . $$ . . . C C C C . . . C C C . . . . $$ . . O . C C . O . X C C . X . . . $$ . . , . O O . O X . X X . . . . . $$ . . . . . X X X O O O . . . . . . $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W And white still has good followups (if black defends against white 'a', white keeps sente). $$ ---------------------------------- $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $$ . . . . . . . . 3 1 2 . . . . . . $$ . . O . . . . O . X . . . X . . . $$ . . , . O O . O X a X X . . . . . $$ . . . . . X X X O O O . . . . . . $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B Black can't even play this modest move without leaving a weakness. $$ ---------------------------------- $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $$ . . . . . . . 2 1 . . . . . . . . $$ . . O . . . . O a X . . . X . . . $$ . . , . O O . O X . X X . . . . . $$ . . . . . X X X O O O . . . . . . $$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

When you kick a stone and the opponent extends, you are giving yourself bad shape. Those diagonal shapes next to the opponent's straight shapes can drain quite a few points away from you in subtle ways that you might not realize, so you had better get good compensation in the bigger picture.

mogosoup · **#17**

This guy felt stronger than most 10kyus, in fact he just registered so maybe he isn't. He was really strange. He kept wanting to mark his own stones as dead.

I am mostly curious about the lower left hand corner. I feel like he got a lot of territory.

Joaz Banbeck · **#18**

Move 10: As soon as he strengthens himself with C16 on the previous move, you know that eventually you are going to have to do something about the weakness at B18/D18. The standard shape here is E18.

Move 12: Necessary, but cramped. Now your previous move now looks way too small. It would feel better at F16 or G17, or maybe even H17.

Move 16: This ends in gote. How big is it? It looks rather small for your 8th move.
Probably better is the hane on top.

mogosoup · **#19**

Can someone give me some advice on how to save the group?

Please Help me review

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