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 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #21 Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:48 am 
Judan
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@BLACK:
A question about timing: Should we try to have a certain time that we discuss this? As the game gets more complicated, we may require a dozen or more messages between us. If such messages are randomly posted throughout the day, we might take a week or more to reach an agreement. And that seems unkind to our opponents and boring for the spectators.

However, if we all are expecting a certain time, we could have the entire dozen messages posted in an hour, or at worst, within a day.

I notice that you both played in the past hour or two. Is this a good time, or are you on an unusual schedule because it is a national holiday? ( And, TegalS, are you really in the Siberian steppe? )



@White:
I recommend that you have a similar discussion among yourselves. The ideal result of such parallel discusions would be one team agreeing to talk during one time period, and the other during a different period, so that the net result is that each team makes at least one move every day.

BTW:I'm assuming that regular play is a goal for all of us. Experience has shown that the bane of multi-player malkovich games is players leaving after a the game stretches further than they expected.

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 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #22 Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:15 am 
Lives with ko

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


@Black
A boring game is not an option!

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 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #23 Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:32 am 
Honinbo

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Joaz Banbeck wrote:
@BLACK:
A question about timing: Should we try to have a certain time that we discuss this? As the game gets more complicated, we may require a dozen or more messages between us.


Right now is about 10:30am Pacific time, and TegaiS just made a move. So maybe we can assume that around this time is a good time for making moves. I propose to allowing discussion throughout the day, but let's try to make a move at least every day at 10:30am Pacific time (around right now).

So if you feel strongly about a discussion, it would be good to be active in discussing the hour before that time. If there are easy moves, or moves that we come to a consensus on at different times in the day, let's just make the moves when we want to. But let's try to stick to at least making a move around 10:30am Pacific time.

That being said, if we haven't come to a consensus by this time, let's try to at least have discussion by 10:30am Pacific time, so that we can keep progressing toward finding a good move.

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 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #24 Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:34 am 
Honinbo

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Let's try to keep this schedule Monday through Friday. On Saturday and Sunday, I don't know when I'll respond.

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 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #25 Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:36 am 
Oza

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@white
I dislike the chinese opening, but I'm not sure that a direct counter strategy is really called for. I haven't had good luck with a direct approach to the bottom right. I'm fine with the 4-4 point or C4 if we want to make an enclosure later.

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 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #26 Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:59 am 
Dies in gote

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@White
I am also not a fan of direct approaching in this situation,I prefer to play at d3 or d4.
I would rather not play at C4,I would like to avoid giving black this position(or lower approach)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . . , . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W , B . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #27 Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:00 pm 
Lives with ko

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@Black
To speed up a little we can discuss the possible moves even when it is the opponents turn. For example
Do we plan to play low chinese or high chinese after white takes the last corner? Do you like Kobayashi fuseki after white's 4-4?

@Joaz
The game is in the Malkovich subforum therefore we can assume that possible observers are probably more interested in the comments than in the actual moves. And I indeed live in Siberia so my morning is probably your evening and vice versa.

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 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #28 Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:05 pm 
Judan
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Kirby wrote:
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
@BLACK:
A question about timing: Should we try to have a certain time that we discuss this? As the game gets more complicated, we may require a dozen or more messages between us.


Right now is about 10:30am Pacific time, and TegaiS just made a move. So maybe we can assume that around this time is a good time for making moves. I propose to allowing discussion throughout the day, but let's try to make a move at least every day at 10:30am Pacific time (around right now).

So if you feel strongly about a discussion, it would be good to be active in discussing the hour before that time. If there are easy moves, or moves that we come to a consensus on at different times in the day, let's just make the moves when we want to. But let's try to stick to at least making a move around 10:30am Pacific time.

That being said, if we haven't come to a consensus by this time, let's try to at least have discussion by 10:30am Pacific time, so that we can keep progressing toward finding a good move.


I'm usually up between 6:00AM and 8:00 AM PST every weekday,and online within an hour after that. Usually by 10:30, I'm hip-deep in the day's work, or out running errands, so your suggestion generally looks OK for me. I could happily go for a hour earlier, too.

@TegaiS? Any thoughts on this? Can you play late every evening?

@Kirby: Our 10:30AM is TegaiS's 2:30 AM. That could be a problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #29 Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:10 pm 
Judan
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@Kirby: Are you still in Michigan? Or did you end up on the west coast?

BTW, I suggest that we start using GMT before we confuse ourselves.

IOW, I usually get up between 2:00 PM GMT and 4:00 PM GMT every weekday,and online within an hour after that. Usually by 6:30 PM GMT, I'm hip-deep in the day's work, or out running errands, so your suggestion generally looks OK for me. I could happily go for a hour earlier, too.

Joaz Banbeck wrote:
...
@TegaiS? Any thoughts on this? Can you play late every evening?...


Oh, I see that you posted around 3:00AM your time. I guess you can.

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 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #30 Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:39 pm 
Judan
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@Black:
TegaiS wrote:
...A boring game is not an option!


I think that this eliminates the low Chinese.:) Besides that, I usually play high if I play Chinese.

Also, I'm comfortable with the Kobayashi. I could go for the traditional at 'b', or with the tighter 'a', which may take all three of the white players out of their book.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . a b . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The black play at 'a' tends to lead white to overplay in the lower right corner, often leaving him with long term weak groups.

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 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #31 Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:49 pm 
Honinbo

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Joaz Banbeck wrote:
@Kirby: Are you still in Michigan? Or did you end up on the west coast?


I live around Seattle, so I'm in the same time zone as you.

Joaz Banbeck wrote:
@Black:
TegaiS wrote:
...A boring game is not an option!


I think that this eliminates the low Chinese.:) Besides that, I usually play high if I play Chinese.

Also, I'm comfortable with the Kobayashi. I could go for the traditional at 'b', or with the tighter 'a', which may take all three of the white players out of their book.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . a b . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The black play at 'a' tends to lead white to overplay in the lower right corner, often leaving him with long term weak groups.


I like 'a' in your diagram. I've studied it a little bit from being in the AYD.

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 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #32 Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:01 pm 
Oza

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andreyl wrote:
@White
I am also not a fan of direct approaching in this situation,I prefer to play at d3 or d4.
I would rather not play at C4,I would like to avoid giving black this position(or lower approach)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . . , . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W , B . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm curious about your thinking behind D3, as it seems like it puts white a move behind in a miai position on the bottom. How would you plan on following up from it after black makes a chinese formation, a corner enclosure, or an approach? Is it just aiming to make the bottom small, and then leave?

D4 I have no objections to, but I'd like to hear about D3 a bit first.

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 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #33 Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:41 pm 
Gosei
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@lowercaseteam
Personally I have no problem with this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . . , . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It may be that taking 44 gives us a bit more initiative, since if black plays chinese we choose the approach. I doubt it matters much though.

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 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #34 Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:56 pm 
Lives in gote

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Interesting, such a 3x3 malkovitch rengo setup.
I am anxious to see how the game develops.
Have fun.

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 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #35 Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:03 pm 
Oza

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emeraldemon wrote:
@lowercaseteam
Personally I have no problem with this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . . , . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It may be that taking 44 gives us a bit more initiative, since if black plays chinese we choose the approach. I doubt it matters much though.


I don't know... white feels a move behind here to me. Black could play, say G4 and if white responds, then switch to the top, and if not, then play D5 to take advantage on the lower side. Maybe the issue is :w6: though, and an approach would be better?

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 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #36 Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:09 pm 
Dies in gote

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@White team
I don't really mind facing chinese opening,white got some options - for example:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . . , . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . . , . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . W . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #37 Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:21 pm 
Oza

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@whiteteam
I'm willing to give D3 a try following andreyl's ideas.

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 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #38 Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:48 pm 
Judan
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@Kirby:
Kirby wrote:
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
...

Also, I'm comfortable with the Kobayashi. I could go for the traditional at 'b', or with the tighter 'a', which may take all three of the white players out of their book.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . a b . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The black play at 'a' tends to lead white to overplay in the lower right corner, often leaving him with long term weak groups...


I like 'a' in your diagram. I've studied it a little bit from being in the AYD.


So shall we tell our teammate that
if they play 2 in the above diagram, then we like 3,
andif they play 4, then we like 'a'?

If he agrees, we play those if/thens. If he doesn't like either of them, we stop and talk it over.

_________________
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207

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 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #39 Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:40 pm 
Honinbo

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KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
@Kirby:
Kirby wrote:
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
...

Also, I'm comfortable with the Kobayashi. I could go for the traditional at 'b', or with the tighter 'a', which may take all three of the white players out of their book.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . a b . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The black play at 'a' tends to lead white to overplay in the lower right corner, often leaving him with long term weak groups...


I like 'a' in your diagram. I've studied it a little bit from being in the AYD.


So shall we tell our teammate that
if they play 2 in the above diagram, then we like 3,
andif they play 4, then we like 'a'?

If he agrees, we play those if/thens. If he doesn't like either of them, we stop and talk it over.


@Black/Cap team:
That works for me. I like this board position as black, if we can get it:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Online, my opponents block it more often by not, either with pincer:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


or they try to stop early with one of these:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


which is fine, I guess. Let's play it by ear if white goes off track.

_________________
be immersed

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 Post subject: Re: Capital vs. Lowercase: Collaboration Game
Post #40 Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 5:17 pm 
Gosei
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KGS: greendemon
Tygem: greendemon
DGS: smaragdaemon
OGS: emeraldemon
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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