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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #261 Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:31 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 Prisoners: 0, 0 Corrections: B=7 - 4 , W=3 - 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . O O . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X X O O X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . B . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I have no prospect of attacking that stone, so lets lean on it to gain some strength. Jumping out is bad I think because it will be purely a situation where I am running for life. I have a lot of ideas that I will show when I return from work, but they mostly revolve around the possibility of me getting D6

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #262 Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:27 pm 
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Some thoughts:
My first instinct was to jump here, but you can see this way I am left with simply two floating stones with no prospect of living locally and no ability to pressure any white stones. White may be stronger locally, but I refuse to just take a beating unilaterally. If I have to fight for life, I will make White sweat a bit too.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . O O . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X X O O X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . 1 . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Since the pincer stone is already strong, I don't have any hope of jumping out and aiming to counter attack it. So I will attach on it and try to make him over concentrated. After that I can double approach. White can cut off my original stone and make 4th line territory on bottom, but I will have sente and a solid position in the center, aiming at the 'a' cut. Considering my point lead and White's moyo previously, this is a success. White still has to deal with the vexation of the open skirt.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . O O . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X X O O X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 . 9 . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 6 8 3 1 2 . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X 0 O 4 , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Some other ways White can resist:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Doesn't seem to end well for White
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . O O . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X X O O X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 2 . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 4 . X X O . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . 7 O 5 X . O O , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . 9 8 . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 There's this, but I will read it out when the time comes...
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . O O . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X X O O X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 1 2 . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O 5 7 . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 0 8 . 6 9 . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #263 Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 8:24 am 
Judan
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Sorry about the delay. I had joined a gang...

I disapprove.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 Prisoners: 0, 0 Corrections: B=6 - 4 , W=3 - 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . O O . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X X O O X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . C . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

White has made the most aggressive play against our F4 stone, so I see no reason to commit to it. Let it be a light stone, maybe used to facilitate an invasion of the corner.
The other effect of white's play is the beginning of a central moyo. We have a growing chunk of terrirory on the right side, so this play is the intersection between two moyos.


Record-keeping question: Before my move, we had "7-4" I changed it to "6-4". Should the 4 reset to 0?

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #264 Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:55 am 
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Joaz, the 7-4 should be changed to 6-0.
I dont' know whats going on anymore...

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #265 Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:06 am 
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Most of Joaz's corrections in this game seem to solely aim at being inconsistent with the previous move played. If you're going to invade, invade. Don't start with an invasion, then move to a reduction.


This post by Redundant was liked by: gaius
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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #266 Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:46 pm 
Oza
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Redundant wrote:
Most of Joaz's corrections in this game seem to solely aim at being inconsistent with the previous move played. If you're going to invade, invade. Don't start with an invasion, then move to a reduction.

there's a fine line between inconsistent and light play, no? (I understand this comment if it's narrowly a critique of a big brother strategy, though.)

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #267 Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 2:45 pm 
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jts wrote:
Redundant wrote:
Most of Joaz's corrections in this game seem to solely aim at being inconsistent with the previous move played. If you're going to invade, invade. Don't start with an invasion, then move to a reduction.

there's a fine line between inconsistent and light play, no? (I understand this comment if it's narrowly a critique of a big brother strategy, though.)

The problem is that the stone is not very light, so this is inconsistent. A stone is light if it has forced one's opponent to make an exchange which is not beneficial for him, and I'm sure white wanted to solidify the side. That said, I like neither aph's move nor joaz's correction (the correction is better than aph's move, though). I think f4 was simply a wrong move (perhaps it should have been at joaz's move here, and then black can treat m2 and the 3-3 invasion as miai), and now that it's on the board black has to d3 and then make a small life on the side.

edit. i'm stupid, m2 and the 3-3 invasion are both pretty much sente, so black can have his cake and eat it twice.


Last edited by Shaddy on Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #268 Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 2:54 pm 
Gosei
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Yes, that move needed to change. But... there? I wish Joaz changed more moves! :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #269 Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:33 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm62 Prisoners: 0, 0 Corrections: B=6 - 0 , W=3 - 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . O O . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X X O O X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . W . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Trying to keep the moyo going. Hopefully I'll still be able to play between those two black stones.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #270 Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:56 am 
Gosei
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Approve.
I want to punish that tenuki but I'm not sure it's worth a correction.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #271 Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:40 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm62 Prisoners: 0, 0 Corrections: B=6 - 0 , W=3 - 4
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . O O . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X X O O X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'm frustrated. I don't understand why Joaz changed my moves; all these exchanges we make just seems to make our life harder on the lower left, which I believe has been the focus of the game for the last 30 or so moves. Now even the cut at E11 looks less appealing as our last exchange just hurt us in a future running fight. I'm just hoping to live here without getting sealed in....

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #272 Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:52 am 
Judan
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To observers:
Aphelion wrote:
I dont' know whats going on anymore...[


But surely he can get the message that I think that the H5 attachment was no good. We were one move away from getting another correction. If it were merely that I thought that M8 had to be played sometime, but that H5 was a good move, I could have waited one move, gotten the extra correction, and then played M8. But I didn't.

I sacrificed 4/5 of a correction. If he thinks about why I did it, he can come to the conclusion that I think that H5 is the wrong move.

Sacrificing something has meaning. It is like playing defense in bridge. If I toss a king onto my partner's opening lead of an ace ( in a suit contract ), it tells him that he should lead that suit.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #273 Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:55 am 
Judan
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I approve.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #274 Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:35 pm 
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are spectators allow to comment on current moves?

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #275 Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:16 pm 
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dangomango wrote:
are spectators allow to comment on current moves?

It's usually best to keep it to hide tags.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #276 Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:18 am 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm62 Prisoners: 0, 0 Corrections: B=6 - 1 , W=3 - 4
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . O O . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X X O O X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . O . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . W X . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I don't think I can cut here.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #277 Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 10:55 am 
Gosei
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Accepted.

Only move...

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #278 Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:36 am 
Judan
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To opponents ( and Aphelion after he plays ):
I approve the crosscut.

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #279 Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:29 pm 
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KGS: Aphelion02
I was meaning to play D3 here, but now that I actually look at it it doesn't look good. It just makes me heavy without giving me a base. I'm considering the jump or the crosscut here

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 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich #2
Post #280 Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:59 pm 
Lives in sente
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Posts: 766
Liked others: 24
Was liked: 59
Rank: KGS 4 kyu
GD Posts: 227
KGS: Aphelion02
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm62 Prisoners: 0, 0 Corrections: B=6 - 2 , W=4 - 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . |
$$ | . X O O . . O O . . X O X . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X X O O X . . O X X O O O , X . . |
$$ | . X . . X X . . . . . X X X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . . B O . X . O . , . O O X . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't know if this is good but everything else seems bad. I just have to be careful not to let W sacrifice for an outside wall

More thoughts:
This is more a feeling move than anything else. I haven't read too much into it, but I know a few things: I must cause complication in order to get a decent result here, and I must do so in a way that causes real threats to the White position. The jump and the pull back are all a one-sided beating by White on my stones, something that I cannot allow. I must increase the risk for White here.


Edit: Looks like Joaz approved so its now Phelan's turn.


Last edited by Aphelion on Sun Apr 10, 2011 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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