Administrators are so tolerant to allow some personal attacks. To reduce the amount of thread derailing, this message simply collects those personal attacks for the sake of expressing my disagreement with the statements made by others. Ignoring those statements is not an option because a) this forum is also read by children and they should not be given a bad orientation without at least commenting that it is bad, b) it can lead to a misinterpretation that unanswered attacks would imply admitting agreement and c) continued attacks involve the danger of reputation mobbing. This list below starts with 2012-12-07 4:38 pm. Earlier attacks are not listed.

Attack by Magicwand on RobertJasiek:
1) http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/viewto ... 77#p121377 2012-12-07 ADMIN: handled

LAST EDIT 2012-12-10

While I agree with your opening statement, this thread is the wrong way to deal with it. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

Also I can't deny that have a lot of sympathy for Magicwand in this matter. I think he feels the same way I did when I was trying to argue with you.

Which other way would you suggest?



I like to argue factually. If you want to feel better while arguing with me, I suggest that you a) improve those of your stated facts or reasons on which I disagree so that they convince me (and everybody else) or b) become convinced by my stated facts or reasons.

1. Did you report the personal attack via the report button? Admins and mods are not online 24 hrs a day to look over every post of every thread. If you find something which in your opinion is against the forum rules, please report it via the report button and give a short explanation of your reasons for the report. This alerts the admins and mods to take notice of potential problems.

2. Reports via the report button are not automatically handled so do not expect all reports to be handled immediately.

3. Some reports may in the opinion of the admins not warrant any action as they are considered to be within the rules of the forum. Other reports may take time to respond to properly.

4. I would normally moderate things I see as black and white against the rules of the forum. But for gray areas, I may leave the report for higher level management to decide.

Please remember that admins and mods have a life outside of the forum as well

As per the rules of the forum:



There is no need for opening a thread to report personal attacks as there is already a system in place.

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http://tchan001.wordpress.com
A blog on Asian go books, go sightings, and interesting tidbits
Go is such a beautiful game.

As far as I am concerned, both magicwand and Robert make a lot of posts that people appreciate, and a lot of posts that annoy lots of posters. They are like chalk and cheese and rub each other up the wrong way, and generally the forum appears to have reached a point where a most people are more on one person's side than the other.

I refuse to allow this forum to turn into a magicwand vs Robert team grudge match.

When we feel a comment has stepped over the line into an unjustifiable personal attack, we intervene. I and Joaz have both done that recently over magicwand's unreasonable comments. I also have sympathy with magicwand's position, and know that many posters value his presence here. I don't want to enforce anything stronger than this towards either party when these comments are either borne out of not being aware how much aggravation he may be causing, or borne out of frustration.

Both magicwand and Robert repeatedly tread all over the ToS line, but those are there to help guide the forums, not police them. All of the administrative / moderator team feel that both individuals contribute more positively than negatively, and don't want to act further than we are doing at the moment without better reason.

Robert, you asked what to do about it. You asked before, and we said not to create separate threads, but to report posts. You did this for a short time, and have since stopped doing it. Feel free to return to doing it.

I apologise if people feel we are mishandling this situation. I also don't think that's avoidable. As long as there aren't more people feeling one person is getting much more of a free reign than the other (RJ advertising vs magicwand personal attacks for example), I think it's about the best we can do other than asking them both to keep respecting each other and the forums as much as they feel able.

I'll leave this open for people to respond if they want to, as I dislike simply having the last post and ending it, but I think this thread deserves locking once sentiments have been said and things have calmed down.

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tchan001, I reported to admins using the message report function, waited for the reported issue to be closed, went to the message and noticed that, at that time, it had not been handled by admins. Therefore, I was under the wrong impression that resolution of the issue was ended, further discussion about it with admins was not expected and the issue was dissolved against my preference.

Joaz, thank you for reminding us of TOS point 8! Apparently, there was a time delay between my receipt of a report closed email and your editing of the forum message. It seems that one must expect such a delay. Next time, I will wait longer and, if still useful, discuss with admins. If you think that I violated TOS 8 by starting this thread, I apologise for that.

topazg, I have reported that particular message, see above. I have not reported other recent messages because there the borderline was not crossed clearly (ambiguous interpretation was easily possible) and I wanted to give the writers a chance. Now I see that I must have a bit less tolerance with writers who possibly attack, and report messages more frequently. Concerning starting new threads: there are two issues. One is TOS 8, the other is avoiding excessive thread derailment. For this particular thread, the latter was my intention. Concerning advertising, there is much more talk about my advertising than what actually is advertising; such as calling proper citation with source reference "advertising", explaining go theory concepts "advertising" just because they happen to occur in a book of a message's writer or already perceiving "advertising" when a possible mentioning of, say, books is only anticipated and has not even been done.

Just so that everyone's on the same page:


This being said, I wonder how many claimed "facts" are, indeed, facts.
Perhaps if you argue about something long enough, it can become indisputable.
That must be it...

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be immersed

LOL, no. Factual discussion is about finding out what is correct. ALA convincing reasoning is not available by anybody, a question remains open.

Robert, there is no way to find out what is correct. You can only have a degree of confidence in what you believe to be true. This is the fundamental flaw (maybe not a flaw, but perhaps downside) with the scientific method - further investigation brings about further uncertainty.

I mentioned about arguing for a long time, because it seems that some people believe that they are "correct" when everyone else has tired of discussing the matter.

In conclusion, it doesn't make sense to claim one's own factuality, as your discussion contains your own opinions, just as that of others do. You can try to convince people of your viewpoint, but isn't that what others do as well?

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be immersed

Maths.

Maths like Direct Comparison?

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North Lecale

Ok, guys, this thread is going noplace. It started as a thread that was in violation of the TOS, and now is now going off topic. I'm locking it.

If you have problems with a post, report it by clicking on the exclamation mark.
If you have problems with something that another member does, whether normal member or admin or mod, send a PM to an admin. We are the ones with our names in red.
Please do not start a thread to complain.

Lastly, when posting, please keep in mind how your post would look to a newcomer.

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