Seattle Go Center sues Nihon Ki-in Japan

judicata · **#161**

mhlepore wrote:

The Daily Yomiuri article:

One thing I found surprising about the daily yomiuri article is the comment that the NYGC was closed in 2010 due to the age of the building. This makes it seem like the building was on the verge of collapse.
I have not played there in several years, but it did not seem that old, especially by New York City standards. Can anyone comment on the state of the building?

It needed some repairs--mostly to the upstairs apartments (which were otherwise very nice for that part of the city, yet vacant). It wasn't in terrible shape. I attended the meeting where the Nihon Ki-in ostensibly "discussed" its decision, and the age of the building was not mentioned.

hyperpape · **#162**

badukJr wrote:

hyperpape wrote:

... So you're approaching this with a loose handle on the facts.

And then, by your own admission, so are you.

How so? I'm not saying anything about the facts of the case. I'm just saying that your response to Shapenaji went well beyond what you could know, since you don't who told him what exactly in Seattle. Show me where (in that post) I'm assuming anything, or how your original post wasn't making unfair assumptions and I'll gladly withdraw that.

P.S. Shapenaji, by saying you were pissed, I didn't necessarily mean that you were in the wrong or not worth listening to, only that you think that the Nihon Ki-in is doing something quite wrong, and that your comments derive from that, not trolling.

Javaness2 · **#163**

http://ranka.intergofed.org/?p=7732 no elections there

xed_over · **#164**

Wow, I've only just now caught up on this thread. I've been mostly unavailable since before this thread started due to some recent personal issues that has only allowed me to focus mostly on work and family (and I'm not fully back yet).

I'm a member of the Seattle Go Center, as is Redbeard and oren, and the initiator of this thread. Was glad to visit with Shapenaji when he was up for the pro prelim recently, and briefly met Magicwand yesterday as he had a long layover for his flight to Korea (Magicwand's visit had nothing to do with this thread that I know of, just wanted to mention that I met him). There are a few other SGC members who read this forum and sometimes post, but I'm sure they'll make themselves known when they're ready.

Redbeard is very close to one of the board members. And the OP is very close to our legal council (who is also a SGC member).

I play Go every week with Mr Fukuda, and he always chides me for trying to save all my stones or trying to kill everything. Frank was, until we received the letter of intent to sell, the Nihon Kiin's representative to the SGC, apparently replacing Mr Takao Yoshida a few years ago. Frank occasionally shares some info with me, but usually tells me not share it publicly, yet. I don't recall ever meeting Mr Yoshida (who's name is on the title), but apparently he is a long time Seattle area resident. (Unless there's another by the same name)

The SGC board members also instructed those of us present at the recent membership meeting not to share some information publicly, and they themselves have been rather tight-lipped about many details even with us. I think one of the primary reasons given was to try not to harm the now fragile relationship we have with the Nihon Kiin. They wanted to give the Nihon Kiin a chance to change their minds (or something like that) while trying to negotiate with them. And they have been trying to negotiate for several months upon first learning the news.

This action to file suit has not been taken lightly, nor was it what anyone here really wanted.

Its my understanding (only 2nd hand knowledge at best, and maybe I'm not suppose to share), that many pros and Kiin members are in disagreement with their leadership's actions in this matter, and that there will be a "changing of the guard" very soon, if not already in motion (but I'd like to see independent confirmation of that as well).

Aware of the closing of the NYGC nearly two years ago now, I wondered to myself if Ms Kobayashi was bringing the same type of bad news to Seattle during her visit this past January. I did not go up to the Center when she was here, but its my understanding that she attended a SGC board meeting while she was here during which she first announced the Kiin's intent to sell.

This information was not disseminated to the members at large while the board continued to try and negotiate with the Kiin to get them to change their minds. Not until the official letter was received in March did many of us know. In fact, still not knowing, I was rather encouraged by Ms Kobayashi's blog posts about the SGC after her return to Japan, that we might be spared the same fate of NY.

Later, when the Yomiuri post came out, and it mentioned their intent to sell to the local members… one of the board members responded to my questioning of that statement on our local members mailing list:

Quote:

"Taking my board hat off so as to not expose anything I shouldn't at this time, I can say two things. There was never a plan to sell beyond the ideas of some people; that is, there was no agreement of any kind, just someone's desires. Second, those people would have been happy to sell to anyone who would buy, so the members of the go center are a subset of anyone who might buy it :-)

. We have discussed independently as one backup plan, could we muster the funds to buy it. That sentence you quote is specious in my opinion."

Ultimately, I suppose it sounds like its just time for Seattle to leave its mother's nest and learn to stand on our own. Maybe this was just sooner than we expected, and not in the manner we might have expected.

I tend to lean on the side of those who think we're making a mistake by pursuing this lawsuit, but at the same time, I must trust our elected board members who still have more information than I'm entitled, that they are doing the best they can under the circumstances.

That's all the news I know so far. To the best of my knowledge its true, but this post should only be considered my personal opinion.

Bok Choi · **#165**

ez4u wrote:

An article in the Daily Yomiuri.

Has there been a follow-up article to the Yomiuri's 9 May article? Can anyone translate it?

oren · **#166**

Bok Choi wrote:

Has there been a follow-up article to the Yomiuri's 9 May article? Can anyone translate it?

I posted this in another topic.

http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/national/cultu ... T01124.htm

You can use Google Translate.

daal · **#167**

Um... Am I missing something? After 9 pages of heated discussion, the news floats in that there has been a shake up in the Nihon Ki-in's board and that they have backed down from their plan to close the Seattle Go Center, and nobody has anything to say about it?

tapir · **#168**

daal wrote:

Um... Am I missing something? After 9 pages of heated discussion, the news floats in that there has been a shake up in the Nihon Ki-in's board and that they have backed down from their plan to close the Seattle Go Center, and nobody has anything to say about it?

Thank you, Nihon Ki-in.

jts · **#169**

daal wrote:

Um... Am I missing something? After 9 pages of heated discussion, the news floats in that there has been a shake up in the Nihon Ki-in's board and that they have backed down from their plan to close the Seattle Go Center, and nobody has anything to say about it?

I think we are waiting for some official confirmation before breaking out the bubbly.

Joaz Banbeck · **#170**

According to Google:

Yomiuri wrote:

Nihon Ki (President Norio Wada) has decided to cancel the sale of rice Seattle Go Center.

Go institution is notified in writing to sell the same center as the "agonizing choice" in the name of the then president Otake Hideo in March. That was causing the U.S. District Court in Washington State lawsuit is a membership organization of local strong opposition On the other hand, seek the suspension of the sale.

However, with the voice of doubt is raised from Japanese players on the sale, to the transition to the new system the executive go club on June 26, 2009, was re-examined. It is determined that the desired result, there is also concern that protracted litigation, withdrew the sale policy, and to utilize it as a base for future dissemination.

Redbeard · **#171**

This news has floated in from the Daily Yomiuri, but at this time there is no official word from the Nihon Ki-in or The Seattle Go Center about the status of the building or the pending lawsuit. The article is a very good sign, but may be an unsubstantiated rumor. I'm holding my celebration until the the lawsuit is resolved.

xed_over · **#172**

just got this email on the members list today...

Quote:

To the members and friends of the Seattle Go Center

The Board of Directors of the Seattle Go Center is very pleased to announce that we have determined that our legal action against the Nihon Ki-in is no longer necessary, and have therefore withdrawn our lawsuit.

Representatives for both the Go Center and the Nihon Ki-in are in agreement that we can amicably resolve any issues in a manner that is beneficial to both parties, and that will allow both organizations to continue fulfilling our mutual goals of sharing, teaching and promoting Go in the United States in the tradition of Iwamoto-Sensei. We are deeply grateful to the Nihon Ki-in for their willingness to put this incident behind us and work together toward resolution in the spirit of friendship and cooperation which has been the hallmark of our relationship from even before the founding of the Seattle Go Center.

The Board of Directors wishes to express our sincere gratitude for the unfailing support and generosity that the Nihon Ki-in has always extended to us, and we look forward to continuing the friendship long into the future. We would also like to thank the members of the Seattle Go Center for their unwavering commitment during this difficult period.

Sincerely,

Andrew B. Gross
President, Seattle Go Center Board of Directors

EdLee · **#173**

http://www.gocongress.org/2012/attendees/vip

Zero Nihon Ki-in pros registered as of today Aug 3, 2012.
Maybe this is the first year ever -- the archive records can tell us.
We'll see what happens from now on.

In Go we learn to look at both the local situations and the big picture.
It'll take time to see the full ramifications.

jts · **#174**

And that makes Maeda what, Portuguese?

oren · **#175**

jts wrote:

And that makes Maeda what, Portuguese?

Kansai Kiin.

He came to the Seattle Go Center for a couple lectures before heading to to the congress.

I'm pretty sure lack of Nihon Kiin professionals has nothing to do with the SGC.

jts · **#176**

oren wrote:

jts wrote:

And that makes Maeda what, Portuguese?

Kansai Kiin.

He came to the Seattle Go Center for a couple lectures before heading to to the congress.

I'm pretty sure lack of Nihon Kiin professionals has nothing to do with the SGC.

Ah ok. I misunderstood Ed's point.

Joaz Banbeck · **#177**

I fear that having the 2013 Congress in Seattle may be viewed by the Kiin as an insult.

Javaness2 · **#178**

If that's an insult, what was closing the Seattle Go Centre?

Hsiang · **#179**

Joaz Banbeck wrote:

I fear that having the 2013 Congress in Seattle may be viewed by the Kiin as an insult.

Silly nonsense.

Joaz Banbeck · **#180**

Hsiang wrote:

Joaz Banbeck wrote:

I fear that having the 2013 Congress in Seattle may be viewed by the Kiin as an insult.

Silly nonsense.

I'd prefer facts or at least a well argued opinion backing up a comment like that. :grumpy:

On the surface, there are official pronouncements of love and brotherhood between the Kiin and the SGC. But the Kiin may feel that they were publicly humiliated by the result. As Ed Lee suggests, they may be withholding their participation in Congress because of it.

The SGC filed suit. In Japan, the number of lawsuits per capita is at least two orders of magnitude less than here in the US. It is something that the Japanese do not do except under the most pressing circumstances. I'm not sure how they interpret the filing of a lawsuit, but I'm sure that it is not the same way that an American would.

If the Kiin has lost face in the dispute, choosing Seattle may be viewed as calling attention to the fact, and therefore insulting.

Seattle Go Center sues Nihon Ki-in Japan

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