It is currently Sun May 04, 2025 11:45 am

View unanswered posts | View active topics View unread posts | View new posts | View your posts


Board index » Improve Your Game » Study Group

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]



Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 2 of 2
  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Author Message
Offline shapenaji
 Post subject: Re: Playing White against San-Ren-Sai
Post #21 Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:08 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 1103
Location: Netherlands
Liked others: 408
Was liked: 422
Rank: EGF 4d
GD Posts: 952
how about this?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O 1 B |
$$ | . . . . . X . X . X X X . O . X O . 2 |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O X X X . X . O 5 |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


Not bent 4 because w has plenty of liberties

_________________
Tactics yes, Tact no...

This post by shapenaji was liked by: SpongeBob
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline shapenaji
 Post subject: Re: Playing White against San-Ren-Sai
Post #22 Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:16 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 1103
Location: Netherlands
Liked others: 408
Was liked: 422
Rank: EGF 4d
GD Posts: 952
So there's a fun problem here, what about this one?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . X . X X X . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O X X X . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]



EDIT: The nice thing about these sequences is that the only way they care what happens on the outside is if black gets a stone in one of the marked positions, so it leaves considerably less aji

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . X . X X X . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O X X X . X a O . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . O X O . . a a a |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . X . X a |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

_________________
Tactics yes, Tact no...
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline EricBackus
 Post subject: Re: Playing White against San-Ren-Sai
Post #23 Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:52 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 83
Liked others: 4
Was liked: 29
Rank: 2 kyu
GD Posts: 109
Universal go server handle: EricBackus
shapenaji wrote:
So there's a fun problem here, what about this one?

OK, I'll give it a try. :)

First, it appears to me that this just dies if there is no way to take advantage of some outside weakness, since it's pretty much like white has an L+1 group and black has played a hane which kills it. So I'm looking at how to use black's weaknesses.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Black's moves are mostly forced here
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O 1 3 |
$$ | . . . . . X . X . X X X . O . X O . 2 |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O X X X . X . O 4 |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . O X O . . . 5 6 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . X 7 X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B White escapes
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O O O |
$$ | . . . . . X . X . X X X . O . X O . X |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O X X X . X . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . O X O 5 4 2 O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . 6 X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B White lives
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O O O |
$$ | . . . . . X . X . X X X . O . X O 4 X |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O X X X . X . O X |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . O X O . . 1 O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . X O X 5 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . |[/go]
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline shapenaji
 Post subject: Re: Playing White against San-Ren-Sai
Post #24 Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:57 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 1103
Location: Netherlands
Liked others: 408
Was liked: 422
Rank: EGF 4d
GD Posts: 952
Eric:

Good attempt, but the solution doesn't rely on aji on the right :)


EDIT:

Basically, if you have to rely on aji on the right, you're going to make it much harder to mess with the right side later.

_________________
Tactics yes, Tact no...
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline EricBackus
 Post subject: Re: Playing White against San-Ren-Sai
Post #25 Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:01 pm 
Dies with sente

Posts: 83
Liked others: 4
Was liked: 29
Rank: 2 kyu
GD Posts: 109
Universal go server handle: EricBackus
Attempt #2
I still don't see any way to live internally. So maybe I can rely on aji at the top instead of the right:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W White lives
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 B 4 2 5 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O 3 1 |
$$ | . . . . . X . X . X X X . O 7 X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O X X X . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

This seems to capture the top black group, so white lives. I suppose black should not play B4, and instead let white live by playing there.

If black gets one of the points mentioned by shapenaji, he can either destroy the other eye:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W White dies
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O 3 1 |
$$ | . . . . . X . X . X X X . O . X O . 5 |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O X X X . X 6 O 4 |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . O X O . . . . B |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


or capture white due to a shortage of liberties:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B 8 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O 3 1 |
$$ | . . . . . X . X . X X X . O . X O . 5 |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O X X X . X 7 O 4 |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . O X O . . . B 6 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W White dies
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 B X X 1 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O O O |
$$ | . . . . . X . X . X X X . O 3 X O . O |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O O O X X X . X O O X |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . O X O . . 4 B X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Nice problem, thanks!

This post by EricBackus was liked by: shapenaji
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline LinuxGooo
 Post subject: Re: Playing White against San-Ren-Sai
Post #26 Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:02 am 
Beginner
User avatar

Posts: 11
Location: Central Europe
Liked others: 7
Was liked: 2
Rank: KGS 5 kyu
KGS: 5 kyu
Tygem: 10 kyu
Wbaduk: 11 kyu
OGS: 10 kyu
great to see all the posts and San-RenSei lovers/haters here :-)

Over last three months I have played more than 300 San-RenSei games as I like to study this style playing for influnece more in details. - And its a good start for beginners (as I did end of January this year on KGS).

If you are looking for a central source about San-RenSei, pls visit my own thread/blog being public here: http://bit.ly/sanrensei .

I just have started to build a first and small SGF collection of my own SanRenSei games you can have a look at if you like: http://bit.ly/mysanrenseigames .

-

PS: The website sanrensei.info which is named in the li19x19 forum different times, is down, unluckily. Two days ago I have contacted Alexandre Dinerchtein (Russian GO Pro Dan) who is the owner of this site to inform him about. Hopefully he will bring back the site soon.

_________________
Motto: Have fun with GO !
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My Go Blog: https://mysanrensei.wordpress.com
@ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MySanRenSeiBlog
@ Twitter: https://twitter.com/MySanRenSeiBlog
+++
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 2 of 2
  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

Board index » Improve Your Game » Study Group

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group