It is currently Mon May 05, 2025 10:52 am

View unanswered posts | View active topics View unread posts | View new posts | View your posts


Board index » Improve Your Game » Game Analysis

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]



Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 1
  [ 11 posts ] 
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Author Message
Offline koticgood
 Post subject: Could someone help me with a very basic corner problem?
Post #1 Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:58 am 
Beginner

Posts: 4
Liked others: 1
Was liked: 0
Rank: kgs 2k
KGS: koticgood
Move 97 in the .sgf



I really messed it up in the game, but my opponent let me off the hook. Throw-in at a4 would have put me in trouble. Just wondering what the most efficient way to deal with the situation is. I messed around with several variations that worked, but I don't know the best way to play it. I should really do some tsumego, as this seems like a classic/basic situation. :study:


Attachments:
cornertsumego.sgf [4.73 KiB]
Downloaded 474 times
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline EdLee
 Post subject:
Post #2 Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:25 am 
Honinbo
User avatar

Posts: 8859
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Liked others: 349
Was liked: 2076
GD Posts: 312
Locally, W seems dead shape; a first feeling is the first-line hane A5 for :black: 104 --
which was missing from your vars (the other hane C1 was also missing :)) --
but, you have a cut at D6, so, complications... :study:
(Without the weakness at D6, I'm pretty sure the A5 hane kills.)
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline Cassandra
 Post subject: Re: Could someone help me with a very basic corner problem?
Post #3 Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:37 am 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 1326
Liked others: 14
Was liked: 153
Rank: German 1 Kyu
Black C4, White B4, Black B2, and there is no way, White's group can get more than three liberties.

Black's group above has four liberties, so White cannot win the Semeai, even if she cuts (i.e. something like reducing Black's upper group to three liberties).

_________________
The really most difficult Go problem ever: https://igohatsuyoron120.de/index.htm
Igo Hatsuyōron #120 (really solved by KataGo)

This post by Cassandra was liked by 2 people: Bill Spight, Mef
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline koticgood
 Post subject: Re: Could someone help me with a very basic corner problem?
Post #4 Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:47 am 
Beginner

Posts: 4
Liked others: 1
Was liked: 0
Rank: kgs 2k
KGS: koticgood
Cassandra wrote:
Black C4, White B4, Black B2, and there is no way, White's group can get more than three liberties.

Black's group above has four liberties, so White cannot win the Semeai, even if she cuts (i.e. something like reducing Black's upper group to three liberties).


That was one of my variations, but instead of W b4, I have W b6. It might be gote, but the b4 follow up is actually annoying. I thought B should have a better play in this situation (c5 is similar to c4).
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline Cassandra
 Post subject: Re: Could someone help me with a very basic corner problem?
Post #5 Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:54 am 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 1326
Liked others: 14
Was liked: 153
Rank: German 1 Kyu
koticgood wrote:
Cassandra wrote:
Black C4, White B4, Black B2, and there is no way, White's group can get more than three liberties.

Black's group above has four liberties, so White cannot win the Semeai, even if she cuts (i.e. something like reducing Black's upper group to three liberties).


That was one of my variations, but instead of W b4, I have W b6. It might be gote, but the b4 follow up is actually annoying. I thought B should have a better play in this situation (c5 is similar to c4).

You played Black A3, instead of my suggested B2.

A move at B6 is not possible, because this point is occupied already.

Starting point of my comment is your variation tree after W 103.

_________________
The really most difficult Go problem ever: https://igohatsuyoron120.de/index.htm
Igo Hatsuyōron #120 (really solved by KataGo)
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline EdLee
 Post subject:
Post #6 Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:57 am 
Honinbo
User avatar

Posts: 8859
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Liked others: 349
Was liked: 2076
GD Posts: 312
koticgood wrote:
Cassandra wrote:
Black C4, White B4, Black B2...
That was one of my variations, but instead of W b4, I have W b6.
Not sure which var in your SGF you're referring to --
after Cassadra's C4 for :black: 104, W cannot play B6 since there is already a stone at B6 ( :b100:).
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline koticgood
 Post subject: Re: Could someone help me with a very basic corner problem?
Post #7 Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 4:30 am 
Beginner

Posts: 4
Liked others: 1
Was liked: 0
Rank: kgs 2k
KGS: koticgood
Cassandra wrote:
koticgood wrote:
Cassandra wrote:
Black C4, White B4, Black B2, and there is no way, White's group can get more than three liberties.

Black's group above has four liberties, so White cannot win the Semeai, even if she cuts (i.e. something like reducing Black's upper group to three liberties).


That was one of my variations, but instead of W b4, I have W b6. It might be gote, but the b4 follow up is actually annoying. I thought B should have a better play in this situation (c5 is similar to c4).

You played Black A3, instead of my suggested B2.

A move at B6 is not possible, because this point is occupied already.

Starting point of my comment is your variation tree after W 103.


Ah, I had the starting point incorrect, sorry. Your sequence definitely seems the cleanest.
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: Could someone help me with a very basic corner problem?
Post #8 Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:12 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 10905
Liked others: 3651
Was liked: 3374
I would not call this very basic. (See recent thread. ;))

A few variations. (And what is with :b16: and :b26: ?)



Edit: Added variation for W-107.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.


Last edited by Bill Spight on Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
This post by Bill Spight was liked by 2 people: cyclops, koticgood
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline koticgood
 Post subject: Re: Could someone help me with a very basic corner problem?
Post #9 Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:27 am 
Beginner

Posts: 4
Liked others: 1
Was liked: 0
Rank: kgs 2k
KGS: koticgood
Bill Spight wrote:
I would not call this very basic. (See recent thread. ;))

A few variations. (And what is with :b16: and :b26: ?)



Thanks. Move 16 I had no idea where to play, so I just played that shape randomly :oops: . Your move obviously looks much, much better, thanks for showing me. As for move 26, I realized right after I played it that it was a thank-you move, I just did it out of instinctively adding a space to my jump after I nobi (for whatever reason, lol).
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: Could someone help me with a very basic corner problem?
Post #10 Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:38 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 10905
Liked others: 3651
Was liked: 3374
Added variation to previous post. :)

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline EdLee
 Post subject:
Post #11 Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:32 pm 
Honinbo
User avatar

Posts: 8859
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Liked others: 349
Was liked: 2076
GD Posts: 312
Thanks, Cassandra, Bill: :)
I got confused with the following shape --
the first-line hane (a) works both here and in koticgood's shape,
but Cassandra's push-and-clamp is better in koticgood's case
because it kills W faster, and so B doesn't have to worry about the cut at (b).
The :w3:- :b4: - :b6: exchange changes everything. :)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . 8 X b . . . . . .
$$ | a 7 9 0 . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . . ,
$$ | . . 1 2 6 O . X . .
$$ | . . 5 3 4 . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ ---------------------[/go]
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 1
  [ 11 posts ] 

Board index » Improve Your Game » Game Analysis

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group