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Offline Phoenix
 Post subject: Themed game
Post #1 Posted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:35 pm 
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All right, this is my first post-for-review game on L19. I've only started to play online again and I've been too embarrassed of my games so far. This one is allright. :-|

This game had a theme. In my head I drummed "No weak groups!" throughout. The idea was to play a simple and calm game and use the strength of my groups to take the upper hand slowly. I never once worried about territory in this game.

I made a few comments where I think some of the key points are. I can't wait to hear your thoughts. :D





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Offline EdLee
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Post #2 Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:51 am 
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Offline Phoenix
 Post subject: Re: Themed game
Post #3 Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:31 am 
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You went so far as to edit the whole thing! Thank you. :D

So in order of comments...

Did you suggest the kosumi because the knight's move was bad shape and can be exploited? I personally prefer the keima in this case but that might be a weakness I have to iron out. :roll:

I didn't play C17 kosumi because I felt this left me open to counterattack on the upper side. :-?

I was confident I could handle the cut at F16 if it came, but nevertheless I should have taken the opportunity to connect directly. It's clear now that this move is better. "No weak groups" indeed.

I guess what you meant when you highlighted the stones during the running fight was that I was pushing the cart and hurting my own stones. I was too eager to get my wall and settled the position in a bad way, I guess. :oops:

Any ideas on how to handle Black in the upper-right? There has to be a much better way than what I tried.

Thanks again. :tmbup:
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Offline EdLee
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Post #4 Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:02 pm 
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Phoenix wrote:
I didn't play C17 kosumi because I felt this left me open to counterattack on the upper side. :-?
What about B's B16 group -- B is weak too, it's a fight.
You look at your own weak groups, yes, but you also need to look at your opponent's.
Open to counter-attack, yes. So you need to look at the variations and follow-ups.
Phoenix wrote:
I guess what you meant when you highlighted the stones during the running fight ...
http://senseis.xmp.net/?SqueezingOutTheToothpaste

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Offline Phoenix
 Post subject: Re:
Post #5 Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:19 pm 
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EdLee wrote:
http://senseis.xmp.net/?SqueezingOutTheToothpaste


That makes a lot of sense. I didn't even realize as I was playing that I could have simply blockaded Black in (that's what the thickness is for, after all). I was too focused on one outcome. :-|

Still, any ideas about Black's top-right area? It's much too big and scraggly not to reduce, and although I did not need to in this game, it bothers me that I can't find a good point/sequence.

Others are welcome to add their thoughts as well! :cool:
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Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: Themed game
Post #6 Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:41 pm 
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A few comments. :)



_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

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Offline Phoenix
 Post subject: Re: Themed game
Post #7 Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:11 pm 
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Bill Spight wrote:
A few comments. :)


Thanks. I guess obsessing over the safety of my groups (as EdLee pointed out) in this game made me forget and disregard the status of the Black groups. My move at C12 especially was off the mark. "Play away from the opponent's strong groups" and all that. :D

Building strength while attacking is a mantra for getting stronger that I've definitely heard before. I've learned a lot from these comments and from EdLee's. Thanks muchly for the pointers! :tmbup:

P.S.: This might sound annoying but I'm fixated over Black's top-right area. I can't find a good way to reduce it, and it just seems he's being way too efficient with too few stones. Anyone got any ideas?
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Offline EdLee
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Post #8 Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:57 pm 
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Phoenix wrote:
This might sound annoying but I'm fixated over Black's top-right area.
Compare how many B stones are on the right side of the board when you big-wedged with :w36:, versus if you had big-wedged on :w6:.
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Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: Themed game
Post #9 Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:11 am 
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Phoenix wrote:
This might sound annoying but I'm fixated over Black's top-right area. I can't find a good way to reduce it, and it just seems he's being way too efficient with too few stones. Anyone got any ideas?


First, the efficiency of the Black stones there is normal.

Second, that said, there is nothing wrong with White playing around there. Your invasion worked fine, enabling you via a sacrifice to wall off the right side and center.

Third, White can capture the single Black stone in a ladder at move 154. :)

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— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
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Offline cyclops
 Post subject: Re: Themed game
Post #10 Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:45 am 
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your move 88 is better than the one you proposed (e6). The line of w stones in the center you constructed between 48 and 80 is too weak to support an attack an attack on b's bottom group also because w corner still has holes. 88 strengthens your corner and stops the weak black group from connecting out. I think your proposal (e6) ends in disaster as b answers d6 threatening your corner and your center group. Well my reading might be off, but this is my intuition.
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Offline Phoenix
 Post subject: Re: Themed game
Post #11 Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:23 am 
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Bill Spight wrote:
Third, White can capture the single Black stone in a ladder at move 154. :)


I don't see it.

If the black stone just pushes out into the center he ends up with more liberties than my two white stones at the top. If I push him into a ladder he captures my other two stones.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Ladder?!?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . W X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . O . X X W X . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O O . . . . , . 1 X W X , X . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . X X X 3 2 W . X . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O . . X O X O 4 . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X X X O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , . X O O . , O . . . . , O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X X O . X O . . . O O . O . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . X X O O O . . . . O |
$$ | . . . X X . . O X . O X X X O O O . O |
$$ | . . O O O O O X O X X X . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . O X O X X O X O . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . O X X . X O O O X X . O . X X X O |
$$ | . . O O O X X . . X X . . O X . . . X |
$$ | . . X O X X . O O O O O . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]




cyclops wrote:
your move 88 is better than the one you proposed (e6).


You're absolutely right, actually. :D

After I play E6, Black just cuts at D6 and I have no way of capturing the stone at E5. He has miai of destroying my corner or killing my F6 stones. :-|

I did not see that during the game. Thanks. :oops:
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Offline jts
 Post subject: Re: Themed game
Post #12 Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:48 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Ladder?!?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . W X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . O . X X W X . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O O . . . . , 7 1 X W X , X . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . X X X 3 2 W . X . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O . . X O X O 4 6 . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X X X O O 5 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , . X O O . , O . . . . , O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X X O . X O . . . O O . O . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . X X O O O . . . . O |
$$ | . . . X X . . O X . O X X X O O O . O |
$$ | . . O O O O O X O X X X . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . O X O X X O X O . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . O X X . X O O O X X . O . X X X O |
$$ | . . O O O X X . . X X . . O X . . . X |
$$ | . . X O X X . O O O O O . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Ladder?!?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . W X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . O 6 X X W X . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O O . . . . , . 1 X W X , X . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . X X X 3 2 W . X . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O . . X O X O 4 7 . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X X X O O 5 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , . X O O . , O . . . . , O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X X O . X O . . . O O . O . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . X X O O O . . . . O |
$$ | . . . X X . . O X . O X X X O O O . O |
$$ | . . O O O O O X O X X X . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . O X O X X O X O . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . O X X . X O O O X X . O . X X X O |
$$ | . . O O O X X . . X X . . O X . . . X |
$$ | . . X O X X . O O O O O . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Phoenix
 Post subject: Re: Themed game
Post #13 Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:56 am 
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I thought my reading was sloppy during the game, but it clearly needs major corrective surgery overall.

Thanks. :bow:
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Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: Themed game
Post #14 Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:05 pm 
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Phoenix wrote:
Bill Spight wrote:
Third, White can capture the single Black stone in a ladder at move 154. :)


I don't see it.

If the black stone just pushes out into the center he ends up with more liberties than my two white stones at the top. If I push him into a ladder he captures my other two stones.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Ladder?!?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . W X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . O . X X W X . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O O . . . . , . 1 X W X , X . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . X X X 3 2 W . X . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O . . X O X O 4 . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X X X O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , . X O O . , O . . . . , O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X X O . X O . . . O O . O . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . X X O O O . . . . O |
$$ | . . . X X . . O X . O X X X O O O . O |
$$ | . . O O O O O X O X X X . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . O X O X X O X O . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . O X X . X O O O X X . O . X X X O |
$$ | . . O O O X X . . X X . . O X . . . X |
$$ | . . X O X X . O O O O O . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Thanks to jts! :)

But, in truth, it was a 4:00 a. m. mirage. :oops:

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

This post by Bill Spight was liked by: cyclops
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