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Offline SuprunP
 Post subject: Any hope for White here? 9x9
Post #1 Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:13 am 
Dies in gote
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Is there any hope for White here?

Go Diagram
Is there any hope for White here?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Is there any hope for White here?
$$ ---------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X X X X . |
$$ | . 1 , O O X O . . |
$$ | . O O O X O O X . |
$$ | O X X X X X X O . |
$$ | . X . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . O . O O , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------[/go]


Thanks.
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Offline jts
 Post subject: Re: Any hope for White here? 9x9
Post #2 Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:13 pm 
Oza
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Rank: kgs 6k
To win or to live?
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Offline SuprunP
 Post subject: Re: Any hope for White here? 9x9
Post #3 Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:25 pm 
Dies in gote
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jts wrote:
To win or to live?


To at least live, as far as I can see it.
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Offline billywoods
 Post subject: Re: Any hope for White here? 9x9
Post #4 Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:15 pm 
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Universal go server handle: billywoods
It seems white can ask for seki, but black can decline and force a ko. Here are the few variations I read out:

Go Diagram
Ko (or else white dies)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Ko (or else white dies)
$$ ---------------------
$$ | . 1 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X X X X . |
$$ | 2 X , O O X O . . |
$$ | . O O O X O O X . |
$$ | O X X X X X X O . |
$$ | . X . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . O . O O , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------[/go]


Go Diagram
White starts a ko
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W White starts a ko
$$ ---------------------
$$ | . 1 . 4 . . . . . |
$$ | 5 X O O X X X X . |
$$ | 2 X , O O X O . . |
$$ | 3 O O O X O O X . |
$$ | O X X X X X X O . |
$$ | . X . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . O . O O , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------[/go]


Go Diagram
Same ko
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Same ko
$$ ---------------------
$$ | . 1 . 4 . . . . . |
$$ | 5 X O O X X X X . |
$$ | 2 X 3 O O X O . . |
$$ | . O O O X O O X . |
$$ | O X X X X X X O . |
$$ | . X . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . O . O O , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------[/go]


Go Diagram
Seki
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Seki
$$ ---------------------
$$ | . 2 5 4 6 . . . . |
$$ | 3 X O O X X X X . |
$$ | 1 X , O O X O . . |
$$ | . O O O X O O X . |
$$ | O X X X X X X O . |
$$ | . X . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . O . O O , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------[/go]


Go Diagram
Black offers a ko...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Black offers a ko...
$$ ---------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 2 X O O X X X X . |
$$ | 1 X , O O X O . . |
$$ | . O O O X O O X . |
$$ | O X X X X X X O . |
$$ | . X . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . O . O O , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------[/go]


Go Diagram
Ko
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Ko
$$ ---------------------
$$ | . 3 . . . . . . . |
$$ | 2 X O O X X X X . |
$$ | 1 X . O O X O . . |
$$ | 4 O O O X O O X . |
$$ | O X X X X X X O . |
$$ | . X . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . O . O O , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------[/go]


Go Diagram
White can't decline the ko, otherwise he dies
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W White can't decline the ko, otherwise he dies
$$ ---------------------
$$ | . 4 5 . . . . . . |
$$ | 2 X O O X X X X . |
$$ | 1 X , O O X O . . |
$$ | 3 O O O X O O X . |
$$ | O X X X X X X O . |
$$ | 6 X . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . O . O O , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------[/go]


Go Diagram
Different move order, reverts to a previous ko
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Different move order, reverts to a previous ko
$$ ---------------------
$$ | . 3 . 4 . . . . . |
$$ | 1 X O O X X X X . |
$$ | 2 X , O O X O . . |
$$ | 5 O O O X O O X . |
$$ | O X X X X X X O . |
$$ | . X . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . O . O O , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------[/go]


Last edited by billywoods on Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
This post by billywoods was liked by: SuprunP
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Offline Dragon Pie
 Post subject: Re: Any hope for White here? 9x9
Post #5 Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:10 pm 
Lives with ko

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Rank: KGS 1D
KGS: DragonPie
Go Diagram
Ko
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Ko
$$ ---------------------
$$ | . 3 . 4 . . . . . |
$$ | 2 X O O X X X X . |
$$ | 1 X 5 O O X O . . |
$$ | . O O O X O O X . |
$$ | O X X X X X X O . |
$$ | . X . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . O . O O , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------[/go]


How is this a ko?

This looks best to me as black gets to take first.

Go Diagram
Ko
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Ko
$$ ---------------------
$$ | . 1 . 2 . . . . . |
$$ | 3 X O O X X X X . |
$$ | 4 X . O O X O . . |
$$ | 5 O O O X O O X . |
$$ | O X X X X X X O . |
$$ | . X . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . O . O O , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------[/go]
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Offline jts
 Post subject: Re: Any hope for White here? 9x9
Post #6 Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:46 pm 
Oza
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Rank: kgs 6k
Dragon Pie wrote:
Go Diagram
Ko
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Ko
$$ ---------------------
$$ | . 3 . 4 . . . . . |
$$ | 2 X O O X X X X . |
$$ | 1 X 5 O O X O . . |
$$ | . O O O X O O X . |
$$ | O X X X X X X O . |
$$ | . X . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . O . O O , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------[/go]


How is this a ko?

Yeah, isn't 5 just removing a lib? If b wants to avoid seki he needs to start the ko with 4.
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Offline billywoods
 Post subject: Re: Any hope for White here? 9x9
Post #7 Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:52 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 460
Liked others: 149
Was liked: 101
Rank: 3 kyu
Universal go server handle: billywoods
jts wrote:
Dragon Pie wrote:
Go Diagram
Ko
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Ko
$$ ---------------------
$$ | . 3 . 4 . . . . . |
$$ | 2 X O O X X X X . |
$$ | 1 X 5 O O X O . . |
$$ | . O O O X O O X . |
$$ | O X X X X X X O . |
$$ | . X . . X . O . . |
$$ | . . O . O O , . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------[/go]


How is this a ko?

Yeah, isn't 5 just removing a lib? If b wants to avoid seki he needs to start the ko with 4.

Oops. Thanks! Not sure how 4 and 5 got there - I must have got confused typing the diagrams.
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