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 Post subject: Five Sacrifice Problems for Dans
Post #1 Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:06 am 
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I think some kyus can solve a few of these (without placing stones ;-) ).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm1 1. Black to save his :b4:-stones
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X . . . . . . .
$$ | . O X O O O O . . , .
$$ | O . O X O O X X . . .
$$ | . O O X X X O O . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]


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[go]$$Bm1 2. Black to live :study:
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O O O O O . . . .
$$ | . . X . O X X O . . .
$$ | . . . O X X . O . . .
$$ | . . . O X . X O . , .
$$ | . . . O X . X X O . .
$$ | . . O X X . X O O . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm1 3. Black to kill White :)
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . .
$$ | O O O O X . . . . . .
$$ | X O . , . X . . . , .
$$ | X X O O X . X . X . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm1 4. Black to play :scratch:
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | O O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X O . O . . , .
$$ | . O . . X O . . . . .
$$ | X O X . . O . . . . .
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm1 5. Which stones should Black sacrifice to live? :cool:
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O O . O . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . . X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . O X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Five Sacrifice Problems for Dans
Post #2 Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:44 am 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm1 1. Black to save his :b4:-stones
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X . 8 5 6 . . .
$$ | . O X O O O O 3 7 , .
$$ | O . O X O O X X 2 . .
$$ | . O O X X X O O 1 4 .
$$ | . . . . . . . . 9 . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm1 2. Black to live :study:
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O O O O O . . . .
$$ | . . X . O X X O . . .
$$ | . . 4 O X X . O . . .
$$ | . 6 3 O X . X O . , .
$$ | . 2 1 O X . X X O . .
$$ | . 5 O X X . X O O . .
$$ | . 7 . O . . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]


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[go]$$Bm1 3. Black to kill White :)
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . .
$$ | O O O O X . . . . . .
$$ | X O . 5 . X . . . , .
$$ | X X O O X . X . X . .
$$ | 1 4 X 3 . . . . . . .
$$ | . 2 . . . . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm1 4. Black to play :scratch:
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | O O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X O . O . . , .
$$ | . O . . X O . . . . .
$$ | X O X . 1 O . . . . .
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Five Sacrifice Problems for Dans
Post #3 Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:30 am 
Gosei
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Almost the same as Dusk Eagle. I missed the descent at :b9: in the first problem but if Black just captures White get's a Ko.
I also found the sequence to :b7: in the second problem ( :w2: being the strongest counter, I think just playing this at :b5: or :b3: fails pretty fast) but then I was at lost when White connects at :b1:. But now after seing the move numbers it was fairly easy to find the following sequence ^^

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc 2. Black to live :study:
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O O O O O . . . .
$$ | . . X . O X X O . . .
$$ | . . O O X X . O . . .
$$ | . O . O X . X O . , .
$$ | . O 1 O X 2 X X O . .
$$ | . X O X X . X O O . .
$$ | . X 6 O 5 3 4 . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]


I have the same solution to problem 3.
Problem four needs some more moves, I guess. I found this Ko:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 4. Diagramme 1 - Black can't capture :w4: otherwise 'a' kills.
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | O O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . .
$$ | 4 X X X O . O . . , .
$$ | 3 O 2 a X O . . . . .
$$ | X O X . 1 O . . . . .
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm5 4. Diagramme 2
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | O O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . .
$$ | O X X X O . O . . , .
$$ | X O O 1 X O . . . . .
$$ | X O X . X O . . . . .
$$ | 2 O X . X . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm7 4. Diagramme 3
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | O O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . .
$$ | O X X X O . O . . , .
$$ | 1 O O X X O . . . . .
$$ | 2 O X . X O . . . . .
$$ | O O X . X . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]

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[go]$$Bcm9 4. Diagramme 4
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | O O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . .
$$ | O X X X O . O . . , .
$$ | 1 O O X X O . . . . .
$$ | O O X . X O . . . . .
$$ | O O X . X . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]

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[go]$$Wcm10 4. Diagramme 5 - Ko
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | O O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . .
$$ | O X X X O . O . . , .
$$ | X 1 . X X O . . . . .
$$ | . . X . X O . . . . .
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]


Problem 5 is too troublesome right now ^^


post scriptum:
Maybe not Ko:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10 4. Diagramme 6
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | O O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . .
$$ | O X X X O . O . . , .
$$ | X 1 4 X X O . . . . .
$$ | 2 3 X . X O . . . . .
$$ | 5 . X . X . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm15 4. Diagramme 7
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | O O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . .
$$ | O X X X O . O . . , .
$$ | 1 O X X X O . . . . .
$$ | . O X . X O . . . . .
$$ | O . X . X . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Five Sacrifice Problems for Dans
Post #4 Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:40 pm 
Oza
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I was glad to see (when I gave up and peeked) that I am not the only one who can't get them all. One to go but no clue at this point. :scratch:

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 Post subject: Re: Five Sacrifice Problems for Dans
Post #5 Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:53 pm 
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@ SoDesuNe

How about this?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 4. Black to play
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | O O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X O . O . . , .
$$ | 3 O 2 4 X O . . . . .
$$ | X O X . 1 O . . . . .
$$ | . O X . X . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]

#4 can be disorienting :shock: because there's a lot of back-and-forth and some tricky timing involved.

Number five actually has an interesting history. Originally it was aimed at saving the seven stones, but a mistake was found in the original solution; so its goal had to be broadened to 'which stones should Black sacrifice?,' allowing it to work once again.

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 Post subject: Re: Five Sacrifice Problems for Dans
Post #6 Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:18 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . 4 O O 5 O . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O 3 1 X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . 2 O X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


This seems effective. W has alternatives, but B does well in all of them.

e.g.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O O . O . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O 3 1 X O 5 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O 4 2 O X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


or

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . 2 O O 4 O . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . 1 X O , 5 . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . 3 O X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]



W wins the semeai at the top, but loses around 240 points of territory.

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 Post subject: Re: Five Sacrifice Problems for Dans
Post #7 Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:09 pm 
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drmwc wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . 4 O O 5 O . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O 3 1 X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . 2 O X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


This seems effective. W has alternatives, but B does well in all of them.

e.g.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O O . O . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O 3 1 X O 5 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O 4 2 O X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


or

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . 2 O O 4 O . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . 1 X O , 5 . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . 3 O X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]



W wins the semeai at the top, but loses around 240 points of territory.

Uh-oh! You fell for the first trap drmwc!
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm1 5. Which stones should Black sacrifice to live? :cool:
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O O . O . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . 1 X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . O X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

White has a nice counter with :w2:. If Black continues to try and save his seven stones, he will be left with only one eye. However, this is just the beginning. Where to go from here?

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 Post subject: Re: Five Sacrifice Problems for Dans
Post #8 Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:21 am 
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Good point Logan!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O O . O . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . 1 X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . O X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


3 looks good to me. W has a number of options:



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . b O O . O . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . 1 X O 4 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . 5 O X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 2 a . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

If 4 as here, 5 makes miai of a and b so B gets something e.g.




Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . 6 O O 8 O . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . 1 X O 4 9 . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . 5 O X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 2 7. . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


B loses the semeai, but again gets 240 points (approximately!).


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O O . O . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O 5 1 X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . 4 O X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


So W atari looks sensible, but then B 5 is strong. Some lines transpose to the earlier ones e.g.



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O O . O . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O 5 1 X O 7 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O 6 4 O X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


and


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . 6 O O 7 O . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O 5 1 X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . 4 O X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


So the new line for W is this:




Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O O . O . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O 5 1 X O 6 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O 7 4 O X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

B 7 works well. W can consider atari below:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W8
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O a 2 O O . O . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O X X X O O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O X O O X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 X O b . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


and now W has a problem - he can't proteact against a and b. So W needs to atari above:




Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W8
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . 1 O O 3 O . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O X X X O O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O X O O X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 X O 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


and again, B will get something, although he may need to give up the top group again as in the line shown.

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 Post subject: Re: Five Sacrifice Problems for Dans
Post #9 Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:24 am 
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Nice problems Logan. I'm curious about whether you're trying your hand at making your own problems after our conversation last week? :)

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 Post subject: Re: Five Sacrifice Problems for Dans
Post #10 Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:04 am 
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Thanks David!

I gathered these problems from some old Go World issues. However, I did do a small bit of tweaking. It's fun to collect problems from various sources and string them together into a flowing, thematic set (I should have a good example in this upcoming week's Journal entry).

As for creating problems, I wouldn't want to say that I've created any original problems over the years, rather I've modified the ideas of other problems to create my own variations from time-to-time.

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 Post subject: Re: Five Sacrifice Problems for Dans
Post #11 Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:17 am 
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Can we maybe get hidden solutions to these problems? I haven't learnt to post diagrams here but i'm clueless about problem #4. If white sacrifices a stone at move 4 the whole sequence seems fairly straightforward but I don't see a way to avoid damezumari (if we refuse to play the ko that is). Help! :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Five Sacrifice Problems for Dans
Post #12 Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:28 am 
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gogameguru wrote:
Nice problems Logan. I'm curious about whether you're trying your hand at making your own problems after our conversation last week? :)


What conversation did you have last week? Let me know, too.

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 Post subject: Re: Five Sacrifice Problems for Dans
Post #13 Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:17 am 
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keysersoze wrote:
Can we maybe get hidden solutions to these problems? I haven't learnt to post diagrams here but i'm clueless about problem #4. If white sacrifices a stone at move 4 the whole sequence seems fairly straightforward but I don't see a way to avoid damezumari (if we refuse to play the ko that is). Help! :roll:


I'm still with a Ko. But I'm prone to make stupid mistakes : D
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 4. Black to play - 1
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | O O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . .
$$ | 6 X X X O . O . . , .
$$ | 7 O 2 3 X O . . . . .
$$ | X O X 4 1 O . . . . .
$$ | 8 O X 5 X . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]

Black has to capture :w4: else:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm5 4. Black to play - Variation: Black dies
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | O O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | 4 O O O O . . . . . .
$$ | 3 X X X O . O . . , .
$$ | 1 O O X X O . . . . .
$$ | X O X O X O . . . . .
$$ | . O X 2 X . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm9 4. Black to play - 2
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | O O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . .
$$ | O X X X O . O . . , .
$$ | 1 O O X X O . . . . .
$$ | 2 O X . X O . . . . .
$$ | O O X X X . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 4. Black to play - 3
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | O O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . .
$$ | O X X X O . O . . , .
$$ | 1 O O X X O . . . . .
$$ | O O X . X O . . . . .
$$ | O O X X X . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm12 4. Black to play - 4
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | O O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . .
$$ | O X X X O . O . . , .
$$ | X 1 4 X X O . . . . .
$$ | 2 3 X . X O . . . . .
$$ | 5 . X X X . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm17 4. Black to play - 5: Ko?
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | O O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | 3 O O O O . . . . . .
$$ | O X X X O . O . . , .
$$ | 1 O X X X O . . . . .
$$ | . O X . X O . . . . .
$$ | O . X X X 2 . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Five Sacrifice Problems for Dans
Post #14 Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:36 pm 
Lives in gote

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drmwc wrote:
Good point Logan!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O O . O . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . 1 X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . O X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


3 looks good to me. W has a number of options:



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . b O O . O . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . 1 X O 4 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . 5 O X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 2 a . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

If 4 as here, 5 makes miai of a and b so B gets something e.g.




Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . 6 O O 8 O . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O . 1 X O 4 9 . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . 5 O X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 2 7. . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


B loses the semeai, but again gets 240 points (approximately!).


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O O . O . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O 5 1 X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . 4 O X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


So W atari looks sensible, but then B 5 is strong. Some lines transpose to the earlier ones e.g.



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O O . O . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O 5 1 X O 7 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O 6 4 O X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


and


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . 6 O O 7 O . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O 5 1 X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . 4 O X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


So the new line for W is this:




Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O O . O . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O 5 1 X O 6 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O 7 4 O X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

B 7 works well. W can consider atari below:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W8
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O a 2 O O . O . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O X X X O O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O X O O X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 X O b . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


and now W has a problem - he can't proteact against a and b. So W needs to atari above:




Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W8
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X . . O X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X X X X O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . 1 O O 3 O . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , O X X X O O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O X O O X X O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 X O 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


and again, B will get something, although he may need to give up the top group again as in the line shown.
SoDesuNe wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 4. Black to play - 1
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | O O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . .
$$ | 6 X X X O . O . . , .
$$ | 7 O 2 3 X O . . . . .
$$ | X O X 4 1 O . . . . .
$$ | 8 O X 5 X . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]

Black has to capture :w4: else:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm5 4. Black to play - Variation: Black dies
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | O O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | 4 O O O O . . . . . .
$$ | 3 X X X O . O . . , .
$$ | 1 O O X X O . . . . .
$$ | X O X O X O . . . . .
$$ | . O X 2 X . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm9 4. Black to play - 2
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | O O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . .
$$ | O X X X O . O . . , .
$$ | 1 O O X X O . . . . .
$$ | 2 O X . X O . . . . .
$$ | O O X X X . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 4. Black to play - 3
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | O O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . .
$$ | O X X X O . O . . , .
$$ | 1 O O X X O . . . . .
$$ | O O X . X O . . . . .
$$ | O O X X X . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm12 4. Black to play - 4
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | O O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . .
$$ | O X X X O . O . . , .
$$ | X 1 4 X X O . . . . .
$$ | 2 3 X . X O . . . . .
$$ | 5 . X X X . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm17 4. Black to play - 5: Ko?
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | O O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | 3 O O O O . . . . . .
$$ | O X X X O . O . . , .
$$ | 1 O X X X O . . . . .
$$ | . O X . X O . . . . .
$$ | O . X X X 2 . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]

You both got it :)

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