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 Post subject: was my enclosure too loose?
Post #1 Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:16 pm 
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can anyone give some fuseki help? in particular the bottom right and side. i tried a new enclosure (for me) with Q3 and Q5, but dont know if my stone at R10 was farther away than it should be to solidify that, or if i just handled the invasion badly. but he successfully invaded.


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 Post subject: Re: was my enclosure too loose?
Post #2 Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:58 pm 
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We could talk about the merit of individual moves in the sequence, but instead let's just look at the result after :48:. Yes, white's alive, but his group has only about 5 points of territory. You don't have territory in that area, but by getting stones such as S12, you have significantly reduced his corner territory (for instance, in endgame you can monkey jump into the corner). You also have gotten much stronger on the outside and this might allow you to make a large center area with a move such as P14 or P13 (your move on the left side for :b49: was also good). This strong center will also make any invasion by him into your top side very difficult. It would be much easier to invade the top for white at say, :w30: rather than after :w48: (not that invading the top would be the right choice for white there, but it was an option that's now gone (or very difficult)). After :w74: are you actually dissatisfied with the huge center area you got, including cutting off the R14 stone? If you played :b75: at K17, to avoid the cut that's very often a problem with haneing on the second line, then you would get an even better result.

Overall, the main problem wasn't with the invasion living - invasions often will - it's with you thinking of the right-side as your definitive territory and getting upset when white invaded rather than paying attention to the profit you got on the outside as a result of white's invasion. Letting your opponent live while still profiting from their invasion is a difficult concept to grasp, but I feel this game actually serves as a pretty good example of how to do it.

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 Post subject: Re: was my enclosure too loose?
Post #3 Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:03 pm 
Honinbo

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MattMiller wrote:
can anyone give some fuseki help? in particular the bottom right and side. i tried a new enclosure (for me) with Q3 and Q5, but dont know if my stone at R10 was farther away than it should be to solidify that,


The extension to R-10 is fine. But do not expect it to make solid territory. Making solid territory by yourself is too slow. During the opening what you want to do is to make frameworks with such extensions.

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or if i just handled the invasion badly. but he successfully invaded.


While you could have handled the invasion better, White was not successful. Yes, he lived, but it was small life and he solidified the Black corner and yielded a lot of outer influence. It is no surprise that Black won big. :)

One possibility after the invasion at R-08 is to attack while making territory with a pincer at R-06. Then if White runs out, to extend to R-12, making a base and threatening the White corner.

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 Post subject: Re: was my enclosure too loose?
Post #4 Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:53 pm 
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If the black corner looked solid after :b5:, or indeed the right hand side looked solid after :b13:, you may want to rethink your intuition. Moves like :b5: and :b13: are good, but not because they scoop huge chunks of territory out of the corner (because they don't). They're good because they make it undesirable for white to invade too early. (As an example, think about opening on a 4-4 point, knowing that it doesn't capture any territory on its own - because your opponent can invade at 3-3 - but knowing that, if your opponent does so too early, what you get in return is more valuable than the territory your opponent took.) You outnumbered white in that area, and ended up with more territory, central influence and sente; that's not so bad. Maybe you could have done better, but at least from :b31: to :w48: you did well, I think. If you don't like that kind of result, play narrower, more territory-based extensions.

If the purpose of large extensions confuses you, you may find it useful to study a well-known opening like sanrensei or the Chinese opening(s), which show clearly the danger that white can get into by jumping into reasonably thin frameworks early (and hopefully also the danger that black can get into by waiting too long to solidify them).

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