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Offline NoSkill
 Post subject: Any pro games that are inspiring?
Post #1 Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:14 am 
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I'm looking for some pro games that make you want to play as well and show unusual skill of some kind.

Thanks for any replies ahead of time.
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Offline tapir
 Post subject: Re: Any pro games that are inspiring?
Post #2 Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:56 am 
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NoSkill wrote:
I'm looking for some pro games that make you want to play as well and show unusual skill of some kind.

Thanks for any replies ahead of time.


You can't get more unspecific with a request. People I found inspiring were Takemiya Masaki, Ma Xiaochun, Yu Bin, Yi Ch'ang-ho, the Oteai matches of the later superstars and most recently Takagawa Kaku - but you can make a completely different list of inspiring professionals.
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Offline Splatted
 Post subject: Re: Any pro games that are inspiring?
Post #3 Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:16 am 
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I really like this one.
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Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: Any pro games that are inspiring?
Post #4 Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:24 am 
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I have a certain fondness for Hayashi Gembi. Here he takes Black vs. Jowa.


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The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
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Offline moyoaji
 Post subject: Re: Any pro games that are inspiring?
Post #5 Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:42 am 
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One of the most awe-inspiring moves I have ever seen was in a game between Go Seigen against Fujisawa Kuranosuke, and the whole game was incredible. The amazing power of Seigen's play in this game was shocking to me. The level of his game is so far beyond anything I've ever played before. GoCommentary made a freely available video commentary on the game and has both the SGF and kifu available.

Game Record and Commentary

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"You have to walk before you can run. Black 1 was a walking move.
I blushed inwardly to recall the ignorant thoughts that had gone through
my mind before, when I had not realized the true worth of Black 1."
-Kageyama Toshiro on proper moves
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Offline judicata
 Post subject: Re: Any pro games that are inspiring?
Post #6 Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:24 am 
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I was just looking at a game between Takemiya Masaki and Rin Kaiho from 1988 (in part because Takemiya is scheduled to attend the US Go Congress this year). Black 69 is just...well, inspiring, beautiful, and it would be amusing were it not so brilliant.

Here is the position through White 68. To experience the full effect, I recommend that you spend at least several seconds thinking about this before revealing the move below (note that he gave up the 3 stones in the upper left with this sequence).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Moves 59 to 68, black to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O O O . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . O , X . . X X X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . O X . . 2 . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . X . 0 O X O . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 8 4 O O X X 1 . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . 6 5 3 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 9 O . . O . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Now see if you can stop yourself from imagining that Takemiya's fingertips are glowing as he makes this move:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm69 Wow
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O . O O O . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . O , X . . X X X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . O X . . O . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . X . O O . O . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O X X X . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . O . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . X . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:shock:



The full game:


This post by judicata was liked by: Phoenix
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Offline oren
 Post subject: Re: Any pro games that are inspiring?
Post #7 Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:43 am 
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judicata wrote:
I was just looking at a game between Takemiya Masaki and Rin Kaiho from 1988 (in part because Takemiya is scheduled to attend the US Go Congress this year). Black 69 is just...well, inspiring, beautiful, and it would be amusing were it not so brilliant.


This game is also well commented here.

http://gogameguru.com/baduk-tv-videos/b ... pisode-13/
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Offline moyoaji
 Post subject: Re: Any pro games that are inspiring?
Post #8 Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:10 am 
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judicata wrote:
I was just looking at a game between Takemiya Masaki and Rin Kaiho from 1988 (in part because Takemiya is scheduled to attend the US Go Congress this year). Black 69 is just...well, inspiring, beautiful, and it would be amusing were it not so brilliant.


Only Takemiya would make a move like that. No other go player would ever come up with such a move. And yes, it is brilliant.

I can imagine his thought process...

"Let's see. I almost have a giant box in the center... You know, I guess I could always shoulder hit his corner stone to make my box. Yeah, he'll have 4th line territory in a corner, but I'll get a big box. How can that be bad?"

_________________
"You have to walk before you can run. Black 1 was a walking move.
I blushed inwardly to recall the ignorant thoughts that had gone through
my mind before, when I had not realized the true worth of Black 1."
-Kageyama Toshiro on proper moves

This post by moyoaji was liked by: Phoenix
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Offline NoSkill
 Post subject: Re: Any pro games that are inspiring?
Post #9 Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:32 am 
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Actually that move really looked like the only move to me, the 3-3 might have been good to give white a useless wall, but it hurts black more. He seems interesting though, I want to see if maybe his play style is similar to mine, since I have never really studied pros I don't know if any play in a style I can relate to
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Offline Splatted
 Post subject: Re: Any pro games that are inspiring?
Post #10 Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:56 am 
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I agree with Noskill. It's an odd move, but I would can't see how you wouldn't at least consider it in this situation.
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Offline moyoaji
 Post subject: Re: Any pro games that are inspiring?
Post #11 Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:06 am 
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Splatted wrote:
I agree with Noskill. It's an odd move, but I would can't see how you wouldn't at least consider it in this situation.

Shoulder hitting a 4-4 stone is basically never good. This is one of the incredibly rare exceptions.

A shoulder hit on that stone gives your opponent free 4th line territory in the corner. That is enormous. If white had wanted he could have had a 20+ point corner. It is only because of Takemiya's enormous potential in the center that white started a fight there later. Normally getting a 20 point corner is good by every conceivable measure, but it wasn't in this rare case.

Center territory is so fickle that most players don't emphasize it. Takemiya is well known for his use of moyos and building lots of potential in the center at the expense of granting his opponents large swaths of territory in the corners. This can definitely work as shown here, but unless you are as strong as Takemiya, I don't think you should play this way. One mistake in your wall and you lose the whole game.

If I was playing like Takemiya, for the center then yes, I would look at this move, but it goes against a lot of conventional wisdom.

_________________
"You have to walk before you can run. Black 1 was a walking move.
I blushed inwardly to recall the ignorant thoughts that had gone through
my mind before, when I had not realized the true worth of Black 1."
-Kageyama Toshiro on proper moves


Last edited by moyoaji on Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:09 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Offline NoSkill
 Post subject: Re: Any pro games that are inspiring?
Post #12 Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:07 am 
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moyoaji wrote:
Splatted wrote:
I agree with Noskill. It's an odd move, but I would can't see how you wouldn't at least consider it in this situation.

Shoulder hitting a 4-4 stone is basically never good. This is one of the incredibly rare exceptions.

A shoulder hit on that stone gives your opponent free 4th line territory in the corner. That is enormous. If white had wanted he could have had a 20+ point corner. It is only because of Takemiya's enormous potential in the center that white started a fight there later. Normally getting a 20 point corner is good by every conceivable measure, but it wasn't in this rare case.

Center territory is so fickle that most players don't emphasize it. Takemiya is well known for his use of moyos and building lots of potential in the center at the expense of granting his opponents large swaths of territory in the corners. This can definitely work as shown here, but unless you are as strong as Takemiya, I don't think you should play this way. One mistake in your wall and you lose the whole game.


I don't usually bother with all those proverbs.. I just play the moves to win xD
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Offline moyoaji
 Post subject: Re: Any pro games that are inspiring?
Post #13 Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:09 am 
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NoSkill wrote:
I don't usually bother with all those proverbs.. I just play the moves to win xD

Do you think you would have been strong enough to win the fight that ensued against Rin Kaiho?

_________________
"You have to walk before you can run. Black 1 was a walking move.
I blushed inwardly to recall the ignorant thoughts that had gone through
my mind before, when I had not realized the true worth of Black 1."
-Kageyama Toshiro on proper moves
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Offline NoSkill
 Post subject: Re: Any pro games that are inspiring?
Post #14 Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:20 am 
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moyoaji wrote:
NoSkill wrote:
I don't usually bother with all those proverbs.. I just play the moves to win xD

Do you think you would have been strong enough to win the fight that ensued against Rin Kaiho?


Maybe, maybe not. On an iPod so I can't click through the game lol. But regardless that move just seems to be the proper move to me, even if I can't win the fight. Still looks like I will have to look at his games when I can get on a pc
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Offline Phoenix
 Post subject: Re: Any pro games that are inspiring?
Post #15 Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:00 pm 
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This may sound a bit passé, but I personally really enjoy Shusaku's games. There's art to it, but mostly it's the fact that his Go is so restrained. Almost irreverent in its calmness. Yet he wins.

Mostly because his opponents are strong enough to see the shark that swim in the water's depths.
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Offline oren
 Post subject: Re: Any pro games that are inspiring?
Post #16 Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:01 pm 
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Checking on a database, the shoulder hit to a 4-4 is uncommon but not especially rare. Watching this game on baduk tv english, I was able to guess what the play would be. It's a great play, but the highlight for me was the earlier sacrifice and ensuing fight.
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Offline judicata
 Post subject: Re: Any pro games that are inspiring?
Post #17 Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:22 pm 
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oren wrote:
Checking on a database, the shoulder hit to a 4-4 is uncommon but not especially rare. Watching this game on baduk tv english, I was able to guess what the play would be. It's a great play, but the highlight for me was the earlier sacrifice and ensuing fight.


The sacrifice was huge. I would say "ballsy." :)

You were able to guess the move, but as a player, could you really stomach giving white all those points in the corner, confident that your center territory would make up for it? I was eyeing the 1 space high approach, although it is hard to see a way for black.
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Offline Splatted
 Post subject: Re: Any pro games that are inspiring?
Post #18 Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:07 pm 
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moyoaji wrote:
Splatted wrote:
I agree with Noskill. It's an odd move, but I would can't see how you wouldn't at least consider it in this situation.

Shoulder hitting a 4-4 stone is basically never good. This is one of the incredibly rare exceptions.

A shoulder hit on that stone gives your opponent free 4th line territory in the corner. That is enormous. If white had wanted he could have had a 20+ point corner. It is only because of Takemiya's enormous potential in the center that white started a fight there later. Normally getting a 20 point corner is good by every conceivable measure, but it wasn't in this rare case.

Center territory is so fickle that most players don't emphasize it. Takemiya is well known for his use of moyos and building lots of potential in the center at the expense of granting his opponents large swaths of territory in the corners. This can definitely work as shown here, but unless you are as strong as Takemiya, I don't think you should play this way. One mistake in your wall and you lose the whole game.

If I was playing like Takemiya, for the center then yes, I would look at this move, but it goes against a lot of conventional wisdom.


The fact that 4th line territory for 5th line influence is normally a bad exchange shouldn't stop you from playing it when the centre is obviously worth more than normal, and doing so doesn't go against conventional wisdom in any way.
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Offline SmoothOper
 Post subject: Re: Any pro games that are inspiring?
Post #19 Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:55 am 
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I think the failed ladder qualifies.
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Offline otenki
 Post subject: Re: Any pro games that are inspiring?
Post #20 Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:52 am 
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This game really inspired me, it teaches the pain of weak groups.
It's also very understandable (at least thats what I believe) for kyu's.

Cheers,
Otenki
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