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 Post subject: Re: Beginner issues - how to improve?
Post #21 Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:15 am 
Oza
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Re 10: If W plays E2, the stone at F2 is captured and can't be saved.
Re 42: You don't mean Q8 is better, do you?
Re 62: R18 is correct. This is called a "ladder" - black can get two liberties on his own turn, but then you bring him back down to one and if he (foolishly) plays out the ladder to the edge of the board, you capture him there. R18 Q17 P17 Q18 P18 Q19 P19 and you have demonstrated to Black that the cut does not work.

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 Post subject: Re: Beginner issues - how to improve?
Post #22 Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:38 am 
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A professional teacher will probably cost you about $35/hour. However, at your level, it is quite simple to get teaching games for free by just going to the KGS Teaching Ladder room on KGS (under "Rooms -> Lessons" I believe).

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 Post subject: Re: Beginner issues - how to improve?
Post #23 Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:23 am 
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Dusk Eagle wrote:
A professional teacher will probably cost you about $35/hour. However, at your level, it is quite simple to get teaching games for free by just going to the KGS Teaching Ladder room on KGS (under "Rooms -> Lessons" I believe).


I think more than that based on the US ones teaching on KGS.

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 Post subject: Re: Beginner issues - how to improve?
Post #24 Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:44 am 
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jts wrote:
Re 10: If W plays E2, the stone at F2 is captured and can't be saved.
Re 42: You don't mean Q8 is better, do you?
Re 62: R18 is correct. This is called a "ladder" - black can get two liberties on his own turn, but then you bring him back down to one and if he (foolishly) plays out the ladder to the edge of the board, you capture him there. R18 Q17 P17 Q18 P18 Q19 P19 and you have demonstrated to Black that the cut does not work.


I've tried playing out #10 a few times, but I don't see how B F2 is captured. If W goes E2, won't B just go D2 and put E2 in atari? I feel like such a noob, but the only way I see W E2 capturing anything is if B goes E1, W goes D2, B goes F1, W goes D1, B goes G3, W goes G2 and puts B F1, F2 and E1 in atari.

jts wrote:
36: Since I've noticed you playing here twice now, I'll suggest O4, O3, and R8 as fun alternatives to play around with.

42: What do you do if B responds at O7? What strategic purpose does Q8 have then? Remember, cutting and connecting.


I think I mixed up those two points, and that my board was at move 36 when I said Q8 seemed better; if B played #37 at O7 then W Q8 could cut off black O7 from R6, could it not?

karaklis wrote:
Another practical suggestion to Voss:

There is a nice site for beginners: 321go
It contains a go course for very beginners with tons of exercises.
Once you have solved (and understood) the problems you should be around 12-15k.


Thank you for that link, I find it very helpful (and fun!). Here as a total beginner I've had some troubles with understanding the logic behind some of the 25k-30k problems on Goproblems.com, so it is nice how simple 321go is. Thank you very much for the link!

Dusk Eagle wrote:
A professional teacher will probably cost you about $35/hour. However, at your level, it is quite simple to get teaching games for free by just going to the KGS Teaching Ladder room on KGS (under "Rooms -> Lessons" I believe).

Ah thank you! Coincidentially I found the room just before your post, as someone in Help room mentioned it.



Go sure is complex, often I feel like I'm missing something that ought to be obvious, which is rather frustrating. But aside from that, I've managed to win two games today, though both by somewhat early resignation (move 49 and 125). It was very encouraging to see that I'm not the only one who makes big mistakes and end up killing my own groups sometimes.

But now I've come across another problem... Handicap games. I'm not sure how to effectively play either with or against a big handicap (Well, not that I can claim I know how to play anything effectively...). As white (let's say against a 5 stone handicap), is it then best to start at the side stars (sorry, I don't know if they have a name!) and then attack the corners? Or is it best to start attacking one of the corners directly? And as black (again, with 5 stones handicap), if white attacks one of your corners, should you respond to it or try to secure one of the other corners?

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 Post subject: Re: Beginner issues - how to improve?
Post #25 Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:22 am 
Oza
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Re re 10: I think we have lost the thread of the original question. I was saying you could play :w10: at G2 instead of G3, because B cannot cut at G3. Why not? Because after :w10: @G2 and :b11: @G3, White plays :w12: at E2 and the black stone at F2 is already in atari. True, :b13: at D2 puts W in atari, but then W simply captures, :w14: at E1, and then black's stone at G3 would be marooned and useless.

In handicap games, the best policy is generally to reinforce lonely stones when W approaches them. This way W won't be able to get a 2-on-1 advantage anywhere on the board, and will be weak and under attack everywhere. Later, when your stones are more numerous and secure, you should definitely consider ignoring any white move that doesn't seem to make a lethal threat - you will have plenty of targets to aim at and threats to make yourself.

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Post #26 Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:32 am 
Honinbo
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Voss,

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 Post subject: Re: Beginner issues - how to improve?
Post #27 Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:59 am 
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The way I've always interpreted the saying "Lose your first 100 games quickly" was that as a new player you really have no idea what you are doing. So you sit there and agonize over whether you should play x or y. But the truth is usually that you just don't have enough experience to know which is better and likely both are bad moves anyway. So instead of spending a lot of time trying to figure it out, it's better to just play those introductory games quickly. After you play a fair bit, you'll start to notice patterns, what your opponent typically does, what moves are horrible failures, etc. And you start to get it. That's about the point where you start knowing enough of what is going on so that instead of choosing between two really bad moves, you're choosing between one really bad move and one not quite as bad move. :) (That's pretty much where I still am btw).

But seriously, don't feel bad not knowing what to do at this point. That's what experience is for, so go out and lose a bunch of games. It's the quickest way to see what doesn't work and why.

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 Post subject: Re: Beginner issues - how to improve?
Post #28 Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:40 pm 
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Voss wrote:
As for the whole talking thing, I'm a bit torn as well. I was puzzled when my first opponent said "Hi gg", as in other online games I have played, normally the winner says "gg" after kicking the loser's butt. And saying "gl" wouldn't that imply that your opponent needs luck to win against you?

Best not to think about it too much - most people use "(have a) good game", "good luck", "have fun" etc. fairly interchangeably. (I suppose this is because half of KGS has learnt go from 'Hikaru no go', where the etiquette demands starting each game with a humble, polite phrase in deference to your opponent that's both literally and culturally untranslatable into English.)

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