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Post #21 Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:13 pm 
Honinbo
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xed_over wrote:
but I don't think the white stone in Ed's diagram in the upper left is needed
Thanks, you're correct W does not need to add a move at B13,
but eventually when A19 is filled, W will be in atari,
so W still needs to remove the B17 :black: with :white: @B16.

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Post #22 Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:24 pm 
Honinbo
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xed_over wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | W X B X . . . . X X X X . X O O X . . |
$$ | O O X . X X . . X O O X X X O X X . . |
$$ | O . O X X . . X X X O X O O O O X . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X X O O O O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . O O . O X X O O . . O O X . X X . X |
$$ | . . . . O B X O O O O O X . X O O X B |
$$ | . . O O O O O X O . O O X X X O O X O |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O . O X O X O . O W |
$$ | . . . O . O X X X O O X W O O O O . O |
$$ | . . . , . O O X . X X X X O O O O O W |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . X X O O O X O X X O |
$$ | . . . O O X O O X X O O B O X O X B O |
$$ | . . O . O X O X . X O O X X X X . X O |
$$ | . . O O X X X . . X O X . X . . . . X |
$$ | . . O X . . X X X . X . X . . X X X . |
$$ | . O X X . X X O O X X X . X X , X . X |
$$ | . O X X X O O . O O O O X X . . . X . |
$$ | O . O X X X O . O . . O W X . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X B O W O . O O X X X . X . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Three necessary moves are missing from the above -- two :bt:'s and one :wt: :
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | O X X X . Y . . X X X X . X O O X . . |
$$ | O O X . X X . . X O O X X X O X X . . |
$$ | O . O X X . . X X X O X O O O O X . . |
$$ | . Q O O X . X X O O O O O X X X . . . |
$$ | . O O . O X X O O . . O O X . X X . X |
$$ | . . . . O X X O O O O O X . X O O X X |
$$ | . . O O O O O X O . O O X X X O O X O |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O O . O X O X O . O O |
$$ | . . . O . O X X X O O X O O O O O . O |
$$ | . . . , . O O X . X X X X O O O O O O |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . X X O O O X O X X O |
$$ | . . . O O X O O X X O O X O X O X X O |
$$ | . . O . O X O X . X O O X X X X . X O |
$$ | . . O O X X X . . X O X . X . . . . X |
$$ | . . O X . . X X X . X . X . . X X X . |
$$ | . O X X Y X X O O X X X . X X , X . X |
$$ | . O X X X O O . O O O O X X . . . X . |
$$ | O . O X X X O . O . . O O X . . X . . |
$$ | . O O X X O O O . O O X X X . X . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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Post #23 Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:27 pm 
Oza

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EdLee wrote:
xed_over wrote:
but I don't think the white stone in Ed's diagram in the upper left is needed
Thanks, you're correct W does not need to add a move at B13,
but eventually when A19 is filled, W will be in atari,
so W still needs to remove the B17 :black: with :white: @B16.

Thanks Ed. Yeah, I think you edited after my edit, and then edited again.
I totally missed E4. The upper left, I'm still trying to understand in my own head (maybe later when I'm not at work)

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 Post subject: Re: Classical Games to Give to Beginners?
Post #24 Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:43 am 
Gosei
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To get back to the original topic...

I would suggest to give the beginner games with clear strategy and not too many obvious complexities. For example - there are some cool Takemiya games from mid-80s, where he played Black. You can follow these games (even if you don't fully understand them) with relative ease, and appreciate what is going on. It might also bee cool for the moyo-factor alone. Games like these can motivate.

Having said the above, I question the wisdom of giving pro games to beginners to study. Like, what will they do, what would be the 'study' process? Play them over and over? Memorize them? Try to understand the moves? Try to soak it up by osmosis? Or what?

And a related question:
What do we understand by 'beginner' in this context? Somebody who was just walked into a coffee-shop and was showed the rules? Somebody who has been playing for 20 years but is still 16k? Somebody who got to be 1d a month after learning the game? Or what? Age might also be of importance here...

Sorry to make it so complex, but I really think the original question is very badly stated. In some cases, it might be pointless, or even damaging or off-putting, to give beginners pro games to 'study'. In other cases, it might be a great idea, but which games to give - this might depend on particular circumstances.

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 Post subject: Re: Classical Games to Give to Beginners?
Post #25 Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:30 am 
Honinbo

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What got me interested in go was this game, in Edward Lasker's book. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Classical Games to Give to Beginners?
Post #26 Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:08 pm 
Oza

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Bill Spight wrote:
What got me interested in go was this game, in Edward Lasker's book. :)

aw, come on. you've got to be more forthcoming than that :)

what specifically was it about this game that got you interested?

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