Hey,
I just played a go game where my opponent and me did't knew wether white is dead or alive. It, as we think, doesn't have two eyes but black cant take the stones either. It also doesnt looke like a seki. Can you please teach two beginners what the situation exactly is?

Thx a lot for your help!

White is alive. There is nothing black can do to prevent the capture of the single stone inside the group. That gives white the second eye. He already has one to the left. Under the rules, it is not necessary to actually capture the stone. It is just removed at the end of the game.

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Still officially AGA 5d but I play so irregularly these days that I am probably only 3d or 4d over the board (but hopefully still 5d in terms of knowledge, theory and the ability to contribute).

The White group is alive, the Black stone is dead.

You can verify this because, even if White never defends the White group, Black cannot capture it. OTOH, even if Black defends the Black stone, White can capture it.

May I suggest that you play by area scoring rules, which counts both stones and territory. With those rules it is easy to resolve questions of life and death by play. The AGA rules are area rules. See http://senseis.xmp.net/?AGARules

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

What nobody yet mentioned: the white group DOES have two eyes. Look again. The left one has just one point and the right one has been poked in the eye by B, but to no avail, as others have said.

_________________
“The only difference between me and a madman is that I’m not mad.” — Salvador Dali ★ Play a slooooow correspondence game with me on OGS?

Ok thank you alot
I understand it better now!

Ike, as others explained, White is alive with one eye at (a) and the second eye at the greyed area, including the dead stone:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$
$$ O . . . . . O . . X X O X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . X X . X O . X . . |
$$ . . . . . . X . . . X O . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . X X X O X X X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . X X O O O X O . . |
$$ . . . . X X X O X X X O O X X . |
$$ X X . X X O O O X . X O O O X . |
$$ O X X O O O ? O O X X O X X . . |
$$ . . X O a O B ? O X O O O X . . |
$$ . X . X O O ? O O O O . X X . . |
$$ ---------------------------------[/go]

Wow, nice! Thx for all the explations
Can i ask you how to make such graphics?
Edit: Is the code implemented in the forum?

Click the "quote" button on EdLee's post and you will see the code.

_________________
Still officially AGA 5d but I play so irregularly these days that I am probably only 3d or 4d over the board (but hopefully still 5d in terms of knowledge, theory and the ability to contribute).

And here is a post about how to make diagrams here on the site.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=226



BTW, has anyone mentioned that in your picture, white does in fact have two eyes? (We're so glad to see a question we can answer).

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Patience, grasshopper.

Black failed to take into account the eye at "a". If not for that eye, then yes, Black could kill white (I think).

Yes, that shape with that black stone in the middle is a dead shape. There's no way to make two eyes from that eye space after black plays in the centre.

Next to some members' names I see the phrases "lives in gote" "lives in sente", "dies in gote", etc. What is the difference between sente and gote?

Sente is a move which takes/holds the initiative, requires the opponent to respond, or however you prefer to put it (or can cause damage to your opponent if they tenuki), while gote is the opposite.

In this context though I think it's just the number of posts you've made

PeterN

So, a move which solidifies an area with 2 eyes while not attacking, is considered "living in gote".

Yup, that'd be one example

PeterN

If you die in gote your group was already dead, when you played another move there you changed nothing so your opponent can ignore it. Or even worse, your group's life status was undecided but the move you made killed it (though this may have a different term). It's a very bad thing normally.

Suicide in gote. I've seen this happen in a real game (that I was spectating) and it was the greatest thing ever.

tynan, here are two (contrived) examples for you.
In both cases, assume komi = 0.0, and use territory scoring.

Case 1. Does live in sente or gote ?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]B$$
$$ -------------
$$ | . X . O . |
$$ | 1 X . O O |
$$ | . X . O . |
$$ -------------[/go]

Case 2. Does live in sente or gote ?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]B$$
$$ -------------
$$ | . X O . O |
$$ | X X O O . |
$$ | . 1 . . O |
$$ -------------[/go]

See also Sente and Gote.

Case 1: Black lives in Gote in order to answer White's last move (which probably established 2 eyes for White, while Black did not yet have 2 eyes and could therefore be killed). The score at the end of Black's 2-eye making move is a tie with White, 2-2.

Case 2: Black lives in Sente by doing two things at once: establishing a second eye, and threatening to prevent White from making a 3rd eye which would result in a winning score for White (3-2). White has to answer that move with a 3rd eye establishing move, aka a "gote" move.

Although I am not sure if gote actually applies to a player who is going to win with a gote move. In other words, is a move really gote when it gives a winning score?

Correct for both cases. Nice!

Case 2: is gote, whether W wins or not.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]B$$
$$ -------------
$$ | . X O . O |
$$ | X X O O . |
$$ | . 1 2 . O |
$$ -------------[/go]