ok so i threw this game late. tygem estimated a swing of an 83 pt win to a 30 pt loss. killing is too hard for me, i have to accept that. so i am wondering what's a more conservative approach.

i am black. i am looking at the game and before he invades, even before my move before he invades, i have a healthy lead.

when he invades at W32, i try to attack in one direction and profit in the other. attacking is something i am finally starting to understand. so at B33 i am aiming to make him run while building moyo on the other side of B33. for about two moves here i am for once actually trying to do something.

B37 is where my mind drifted away from intentional attack to thoughtless attack. i tried to contain him completely and kill him at that point without thinking about how probable that was. so i am not that concerned with the game after that point even though i didnt throw it until much much later.

at B37, should i have played somewhere like J7 instead? continue to build territory but let him connect? and then use that moyo to attack and reduce his bottom right? or is that letting him off too easily? i can't really count and roughly, his territory doesnt look insignificant. i'm guessing my bottom would be about 33% bigger than his top, which seems like a lot to give up even though his invasion doesnt make him any territory. i guess i could have cut at F9 later too.

i dunno, i've just basically started attacking with purpose yesterday so this is the first time i think i might understand comments regarding the attack.

also please keep in mind, i have no mind for go at all. it takes me forever to make a move and it's not because im reading out 20 move trees. i know and have such little instinct that i will feel completely rudderless. this game is, im finding, not natural for me. so if you want to ask me, "why did you x?" with x being a stupid move, i probably have no answer, i barely know what im doing. it's taken me almost a year to know enough to actually think and intend anything with even a few of my moves and i'm still struggling with it, case in point B37.

As a general idea, while attacking you should use the knight move... however, you should put pressure on your rival stones, not the other way round. Move B35, though is a knight move and get you lots of territory, allows your rival to go into the open space.

On the other hand, this was a big moyo centered game, so defending at E9 at move 31 would have been huge. In fact, your right group wasn't under heavy attack so you could have tenukied.

I would consider 3 possibilities:
-attaching at G8 and then capping at H9 or cutting through F9 depending on the response.
-directly cutting at f9.
-a sente sequence around J15 to gain a wall and then strenghten my attack.
-J10, pushing my rival towards the bottom and away from the center. This would be the dangerous option since it would be very painful if white lives.

During a game, I would probably have chosen the direct cut at F9

I'm sorry I can't edit the sgf right now...

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and are both small. You took your eye off the ball, concerned with one or two stones instead of the large White group.

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I think it's good that you have the idea of making territory while attacking. In that sense, we can see the intention behind E8.

However, you have so much $@#%#-ing influence in the area, I would consider starting out by attacking with G10.

There may be a better move an G10, but somehow getting territory with E8 seems too small to me - like you are not getting enough compensation for your influence in the area.

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Until a few weeks ago I would have agreed that G-10 is better than E-08. But then I saw some sideways attacks like that that make territory in Okigo Jizai by Hattori Inshuku. Yes, he was writing about handicap games, but this situation is similar in that Black has so much influence. I now think that both plays are good. I'm glad you brought up G-10.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

I'll preface this post with saying that I am still learning about attacking, so sometimes when I do go problems related to attacking in the middle game, I get the wrong direction of play.

Still, this doesn't prevent me from having opinions on the matter

The point about E8 is interesting. It's benefit, I presume, is to make territory along the bottom while attacking.

This seems admirable, but somehow I feel that it is soft on white. White has more space to jump toward the center this way, and it seems difficult to sustain the attack.

On the other hand, I was thinking about this more, and after G10 (if is was played as an alternative to e8), if white simply does a one-space jump downward, it's not clear to me what black's best play is - should the left side be reenforced? Should black also jump down one space to keep access cut off to the center?

Maybe an alternative to both E8 and G10 could be G9...? This way, it's a bit easier to keep black cut off from the center.

Probably the key to maintaining a severe attack is to consider not only the single move, but the sequence that follows.

If there is no hope to killing the invasion, perhaps it is most efficient to make territory with the initial followup of E8 like in the game.

It just seems a pity to me, because I want more an that. Maybe I should look up this "Okigo Jizai".

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The more I think about this, the more confused I get.,,

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I would consider P14 here, and if white defends the top (against moves like O17), then at F15.
Then I like every single black move until - why is this not on J13? Am I missing something obvious?
I fully agree with Bill. This is so very small.
agree with Bill, although b51 was already the bigger sin. These two moves are the take home message here, IMHO.
by the way, at L4 seems harder to answer than K4? If white then takes K4, Black K5 seems fun - White will have hard time managing all the cutting points, considering B still has J7 peep too.

my reason for k14 instead of j13 at is not a good one, but the resource im using right now is bruce wilcox's contact and sector fights and at the novice level (which i'm still working through) he suggests not to attack using contact because it will make your opponent stronger. i have had a couple games where i accidentally ignored that and it was always coming back to bite me so i decided to try and adhere to it for now. j13 was the move i wanted to play. i dont know if im good enough to do it safely yet though

where would you guys go instead of and ? i played them because i was worried about the weak group to the right. i realize now that i probably didnt have to worry about that. i am trying to think where i should have played instead. somewhere like G11 or D12? i dont know much about g11 type attacks, my idea would be to just limit the open space white could make an eye out of. d12 would be to secure a bit more moyo while attacking and limiting its eye space at the edge. that's my current thought process

Learn or die and learn, or die and die and learn? There are indeed some possibilities for complexity, but to my relatively bad reading J13 seems playable.



Again, take with a grain of salt but my take for
D12 seems much too easygoing on white.
G11 seems to say that you will kill the whole white group (if white connects with e.g. G10-F11-E9). Good if you are sure of yourself - seems not trivial to me, not saying it is impossible. G11 is indeed a shape point, but perhaps not in this particular position?
Cutting at F9 or F10 seems good enough and quite safe, my choice. Unless I'm missing something, F10 gives you a bit nicer shape here ( white can't ladder F10...)

Some thoughts about

You would like to attack on a large scale. Often the best thing is for the opponent to live small, while you make strength or territory elsewhere.

One thing that comes to mind is J-07. It is consistent with your earlier attacks and makes territory while attacking. Your concern about the group on the right has some merit. If now White continues at K-08, you can jump with M-07, which attacks the White group, strengthens the Black group, and threatens to reduce the White territory in the bottom right quadrant.

Another idea is D-11, which also makes territory while attacking. It keeps the White group from making a base on the left side, so that the stones are floating in the center.

F-10 may be best, but the center White stones will get stronger in the fighting.

M-07 is bigger than it looks. It bolsters the Black group, threatens to reduce the White framework, and attacks on a really large scale.

P-07 is another thought. It does not immediately continue the attack, and is weak. But if White goes after it, Black will build up strength to renew the attack, which will make the sacrifice well worth it. Clever, but maybe too clever.

I like M-07 as a triple threat. However, I am leaning towards D-11, since as White scrambles I will probably get M-07 anyway. But it does not work the other way around.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.