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 Post subject: Re: Is there an area so big that an invasion cannot be stopp
Post #21 Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:31 am 
Dies with sente

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If you like you can try it out on DGS (though not real-time) with shape-games to live in the center:
http://www.dragongoserver.net/view_shape.php?shape=10
http://www.dragongoserver.net/view_shape.php?shape=16

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 Post subject: Re: Is there an area so big that an invasion cannot be stopp
Post #22 Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:11 am 
Oza

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hyperpape wrote:
In a "normal" game, you can sometimes try to kill the 33 invasion. You just need a lot of outside strength to keep your opponent from running outward and trashing your position.


Agreed. I think beginners are often told it can't be killed because in the examples given, trying to kill results in a worse result, but it is possible to hold the invasion to one eye in exchange for the invader breaking the seal. Whether you can prevent them from getting a second eye afterwards in the center depends entirely on how strong you are there. Killing this can also be rather complicated, so it's much easier not to mention it until later, as the circumstances are relatively rare and up to a certain level, one is liable to let it live and end up with a much worse position than otherwise.

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 Post subject: Re: Is there an area so big that an invasion cannot be stopp
Post #23 Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:39 am 
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And here's an example of Takemiya killing the 33 point invasion: http://senseis.xmp.net/?TakemiyaMasakiK ... ntInvasion

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 Post subject: Re: Is there an area so big that an invasion cannot be stopp
Post #24 Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:27 am 
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hyperpape wrote:
And here's an example of Takemiya killing the 33 point invasion: http://senseis.xmp.net/?TakemiyaMasakiK ... ntInvasion

Why am I not surprised that Takemiya would be the kind of pro who would know when he can kill a 3-3 invasion?


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 Post subject: Re: Is there an area so big that an invasion cannot be stopp
Post #25 Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:45 am 
Oza

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In that example, I think both players knew it could be killed, but that Okada used it as a sacrifice to enable a greater reduction from the outside than he would have been able to accomplish otherwise.

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 Post subject: Re: Is there an area so big that an invasion cannot be stopp
Post #26 Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:33 am 
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Moderately strong amateurs (5d+ on tygem and oro) know when you can kill a 3-3 invasion too.

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