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Author Message
Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Move 30
Post #1 Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 2:30 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 10905
Liked others: 3651
Was liked: 3374
Move 30 is typically late in the opening or perhaps early in the middle game. By now the game has taken on its own unique character, as a rule. It is a point at which Honinbo Jowa recommended assessing the position. And presumably forming a plan.

Here are a number of positions from pro games with White to play move 30 (or move 29 in a 2 stone game), for your enjoyment. :) In most of them one of the players is a Meijin or later Meijin. I selected them because I liked White's move. Where would you play?

Diagrams are hidden to save space.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play move 30, no komi
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X . X O . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . O . O . . X . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play move 30, 5.5 komi
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . X X O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . X , O . . O . , . . . |
$$ | . X O . O O . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play move 30, 4.5 komi
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . O . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play move 30, 5.5 komi
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play move 29, 2 stones, no komi
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , O X . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . O X . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play move 30, no komi
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . O . X . . X . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . X . . X . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play move 30, no komi
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . X . . . X . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O . O . . . O . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . X . . . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play move 30, no komi
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . X . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play move 29, 2 stones, no komi
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . X X X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , O O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . O . X . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play move 30, no komi
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . X O . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . O . . X . . X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play move 30, no komi
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X O X O . . , . . X . O , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . X . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Edit: Added coordinates. Thanks, Uberdude! :)

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.


Last edited by Bill Spight on Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
This post by Bill Spight was liked by 4 people: cyclops, drmwc, illluck, wineandgolover
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 Profile  
 
Offline Dusk Eagle
 Post subject: Re: Move 30
Post #2 Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 2:43 pm 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1758
Liked others: 378
Was liked: 375
Rank: 4d
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W A hard one, but I want to support my weakest group,\n perhaps connect up to my right group, and seal the black group in.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . W . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X . X O . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . O . O . . X . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Another hard one
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . W . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . X X O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . X , O . . O . , . . . |
$$ | . X O . O O . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W And another really hard one. I chose this because it gives some aji\n in black's corner.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . W . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . O . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W I've given up hope on there being any easy ones.\n :w1: to reinforce then :w3: to attack?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . 1 . . . , . . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X 2 . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Build a wall with :wc: then jump to :et:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , W . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . T . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , O X . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . O X . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W ???
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . O . X . . X . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . W . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . X . . X . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Build up the right side
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . X . . . X . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O . O . . . O . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . X . . . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W If black gets this move it's huge. This isolates the top\nblack group and supports white's center stone.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . O . W . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . X . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Help white's weakest group. Don't want it to get surrounded.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . X X X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , O O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . W . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . O . X . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Put pressure on the bottom right black group and give a bit of support\nto the left white group. If black pushes through, sacrifice the two white stones\nfor the outside.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . W . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . X O . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . O . . X . . X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W I had to decide between this and :et:, and slightly prefered this.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . W . . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . T . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X O X O . . , . . X . O , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . X . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are.
Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness.
We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before,
No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.

This post by Dusk Eagle was liked by: Bill Spight
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Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: Move 30
Post #3 Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:04 pm 
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@ Dusk Eagle

Some nice ideas. :) You and I are batting about the same, but then neither of us is Meijin. ;)

_________________
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At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: Move 30
Post #4 Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:03 pm 
Lives in sente

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My attempts, should prove to be entertaining if nothing else :p


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W I feel like white is behind, so want to hane and tenuki if possible. I also considered the clamp at a and the cut at b, but felt that they were too much.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . a . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . b X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X . X O . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . O . O . . X . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Seems like bottom left isn't particularly urgent. I initially wanted a but then double wing for black seems too good?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . X X O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . X , O . . O . , . . . |
$$ | . X O . O O . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Nothing on left side seems especially interesting. Black at a is quite annoying, but perhaps can try to reduce first?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . a . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . O . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W I feel like this is sufficient, a or sansan seems to put too much stake into the attack on the left group.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . a . . . , . . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X 1 . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W It doesn't feel like white needs to play the more aggressive taisha or the pincer at a.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , 1 . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , O X . X O O O . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . O X . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Feels like the most important pair of groups on the board? Also considered a but seems like black is hard to attack.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . O . X . . X . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 1 . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . X . . X . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W This feels like a key point.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . X . . . X . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O . O . . . O . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . X . . . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Trying to get a chance to tenuki and play on left side?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . X . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Looking to sabaki at a or invade at b later?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . X X X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , O O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 1 . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . b . X O . . O . X . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Feels too hard if black plays the keima one point to the left first.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . 1 . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . X O . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . O . . X . . X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Not sure if white should play on top first, but I don't really want black to get a first.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X X O X O . . , . . X . O , . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . X . . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: Move 30
Post #5 Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:21 pm 
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@ illluck

Also some interesting ideas. :)

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Offline Dusk Eagle
 Post subject: Re: Move 30
Post #6 Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:38 pm 
Gosei
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I like this idea in particular by illuck:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . X . . . X . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O . O . . . O . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . X . . . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Having now seen this move, I think it's better than what I came up with.

I also considered this move which he suggested:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . 1 . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X , . X O . 2 , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . O . . X . . X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

but I felt weird if black played :b2:.

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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: Move 30
Post #7 Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:44 pm 
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Dusk Eagle wrote:
I like this idea in particular by illuck:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . X . . . X . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O . O . . . O . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X O X . X . . . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Having now seen this move, I think it's better than what I came up with.


Thanks, but that was also my reaction when I saw your move for this situation XD

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Offline Uberdude
 Post subject: Re: Move 30
Post #8 Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:23 pm 
Judan

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Bill Spight wrote:
I selected them because I liked White's move.


This makes me feel I can't play 'normal' moves but have to find something special...

For #1 my first thought was hane like illluck or cut, but if I have to find something special thought of attach on top of black's 4th line stone down there. Black's group to the left isn't secure yet so maybe the cut could be good as it tries to maximize the efficiency of that kosumi peep move (hmmm Bill could you add coordinates?).
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Offline cyclops
 Post subject: Re: Move 30
Post #9 Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:15 pm 
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I'd play J7,Q10 and O12 for the first 3 problems
Tomorrow I'll solve the rest ;)

Edit: Tomorrow has come. Here are the remaining solutions. I must say I am much less confident about these. I pray one is correct.
problem 4 onwards: E8,O17,H4,J16,J17,E10,N16,R9

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Last edited by cyclops on Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: Move 30
Post #10 Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:27 pm 
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Uberdude wrote:
Bill Spight wrote:
I selected them because I liked White's move.


This makes me feel I can't play 'normal' moves but have to find something special...

For #1 my first thought was hane like illluck or cut, but if I have to find something special thought of attach on top of black's 4th line stone down there. Black's group to the left isn't secure yet so maybe the cut could be good as it tries to maximize the efficiency of that kosumi peep move (hmmm Bill could you add coordinates?).


Here is one that I almost included. :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm30 Murase Shuho (W) vs. Honinbo Shuei, 1885
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . O . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X O . O . O . X . . X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I like :w30:, but I felt that it was too obvious. I wanted a certain amount of educational and entertainment value. :) Anyway, it was a close call.

I added coordinates. Thanks for the suggestion. :) I should have done it anyway.

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Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: Move 30
Post #11 Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:35 am 
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Game 1. What White played, and the SGF with sportscaster comments from me. :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm30 Dosetsu (W) vs. Dochi, 1706
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . O . . . 4 . 1 X 2 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X O . 5 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X . X O . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . , X . . O . O . . X . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White's stones on the bottom side are under attack. :w30: is IMO almost dictated, as it threatens to push and cut, and simply running is seldom a good idea. :b31: is the expected strong counter. Then :w32: looks right and left. After :b33: prevents the push and cut, :w34: puts pressure on Black's two central stones.



Note: At the time, the difference in strength between pro ranks was greater than later on, and certainly now. But weaker dans were often underrated. The difference between 8 dan and 6 dan was like a difference of one amateur rank today.

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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: Move 30
Post #12 Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:17 am 
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Adding "Jowa says 'don't run'" to the drinking game ;)

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Offline cyclops
 Post subject: Re: Move 30
Post #13 Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:51 pm 
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Bill Spight wrote:
Game 1. .... ( solution )


100% score so far!

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Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: Move 30
Post #14 Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:02 am 
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Game 2

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm30 Kobayashi Koichi (W) vs. Cho Chikun, 1984, 5.5 komi
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . 3 . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . X X O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . X , O . . O . 7 6 . . |
$$ | . X O . O O . . . . . . . . . . O 9 . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I liked :w30: in this game because I did not understand it. Having studied it a bit more, I still do not understand it. But my appreciation for Cho Chikun has increased. :)

:w32: does not just run. It threatens the Black group in the bottom right. :b33: combines attack and defense. After :w34: Black settles his group with sente.



FWIW, my impression is that Cho Chikun came out better than Kobayashi in the fuseki by making, except for the three space high pincer, quite ordinary looking plays. Go Seigen has criticized Cho Chikun for thinking a long time in the fuseki. Maybe he should take that back. ;)

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Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: Move 30
Post #15 Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 11:25 am 
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Game 3

A Go Seigen game, from the New Fuseki period.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm30 Go Seigen (W) vs. Hasegawa Akira, 1934, 4.5 komi
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . 1 . 2 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X O B . O . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:w30: is a probe. White plays it before Black is too strong outside. :b31: secures the corner. Later, White will make use of the aji of :w30:. After :b31: White plays tenuki. :w32: makes a large moyo.


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Offline cyclops
 Post subject: Re: Move 30
Post #16 Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:36 pm 
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I like :w32: at the border of two moyo's. Better than my O12. I only can appreciate :w30: if I know how W's continuations depend on :b31: and why it has to be played now.

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Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: Move 30
Post #17 Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:09 pm 
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Game 4

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm30 Cho Chikun (W) vs. O Rissei, 2000, 5.5 komi
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . X . |
$$ | . X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 3 . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 1 . , . . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I like :w30: because it is an apparently simple play, yet powerful and far sighted. It does not prevent Black from cutting off the White stones in the bottom left corner, but makes it unpleasant for Black to do so, while reducing Black's potential on the bottom side. :b31: secures the corner and then White defends his stones and Black does likewise. Now :w30: looks at both the bottom side and the center.



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Offline Uberdude
 Post subject: Re: Move 30
Post #18 Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:31 am 
Judan

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Cho Chikun's opponent has all four corners!
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Offline skydyr
 Post subject: Re: Move 30
Post #19 Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 8:54 am 
Oza

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Uberdude wrote:
Cho Chikun's opponent has all four corners!


It's clear why Cho Chikun won now. His opponent was black, after all.
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Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: Move 30
Post #20 Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:42 pm 
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Game 5

Satsugen's masterpiece :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm29 Honinbo Satsugen Meijin (W) vs. Inoue Shuntatsu, 1768, 2 stones, no komi
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , 0 . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . X X O . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 3 . . . . . . . O . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 8 9 . . , O X . X O O O . . |
$$ | . 6 . X . O . . O . O X . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . 1 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:w29: invades Black's corner. 38 is a big point, but White cannot make things too easy for Black. :w33: looks both ways. :b36: is tesuji to guard against the push and cut with sente.

Interesting how many of these masterpiece games end in a small loss. It is not easy to give a strong player two stones. ;)


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At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
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