Hi,

I've been playing go on and off for more than 10 years now (almost exclusively on KGS). In fact I just checked the KGS archives and I registered my first account (which has been deleted multiple times since due to inactivity) back in 2002.
I feel I'm stuck really hard at 6k. Looking at the archives I see I faced a wall at 14k some 7 years ago and then I somehow jumped it and found myself at 8k. I've been around 6-8k ever since.

Recently I found Nick Sibicky's excellent lectures on youtube. And it gave me a new momentum to want to improve. The problem is, those lectures are aimed at double digit kyu players. And while they are still interesting and contain some really handy tips and insight, they are a little bit slow paced for me and I'm unfortunately very low on free time.

Is there something similar maybe for single digit kyu players available?

I'm not aiming at rapid improvement, I'd be happy with a slow, steady improve while keeping the game fun - I feel I can't afford a focused learning effort because I'd just end up putting go aside.

But here is the problem. I'm starting to believe, this wall at 6k can not be passed through step by step. It needs to be jumped over. In an attempt I checked Nick's archives to see how he managed to pass this wall: and he didn't. He just teleported to the other side. 8k one day, 4k on the other.
This again makes me to suspect that there is some important realization that would catapult people over the wall. If only I knew what it was...

Some players hit this wall, other players jump over it. I skipped 6k when improving from 7k to 5k immediately. How? I had read a few suitable books for that purpose and spent very much time on playing.

Hi we all have been there. Try to immerse yourself more in the game, without thinking to much about "the wall". Reading good books will help (see Roberts new Post) and playing and reviewing a lot of long games. A couple of month ago I also thought I was stuck around 6k, but now I can feel that I am slowly moving beyond the wall.
I think you see other players "jump" over the wall because you only see their kgs-rank and not the work they put in to the "jump" over the wall. In my opinion it is a slow and steady process not a single jump.
Have fun!

I'm currently 4-5k at KGS, I was stuck at 7-8k for a while... I got over it by fixing my greed. Allowing my opponent to gain some territory while I get a bigger one. Avoiding suicidal invasions was the key for my improvement.

I'm still working on improving my fuseki... a suggestion made by L19 users...

_________________
My blog about Go and Boardgames: Alejo's Tenuki

I'm at almost the exact same wall, I've been at 6k since October now and I seem to be climbing it until I face a 4k player at which point I tend to be demolished even with my 2 handicap stones. It feels like there's a complete difference between the average 5k and the average 4k. But the rank graph is slowly climbing!

Perhaps it's just an accumulation of small things or perhaps there is some aspect missing from your game almost entirely, at some point we'll run up against people who can largely exploit that.

PeterN

Hi peti29,Yes, and yes.

Peti, you may consider to post your serious games here for reviews (or on KGS, etc.). If you're lucky, you'll get some good reviews.
Lectures are fine; books are fine. But somebody still needs to look at your games and points out what you're doing right,
and what you're doing wrong -- that person is either you or someone else.
And lectures and books are slightly different than a good teacher who looks at your moves specifically.

Also, any time someone says they broke a barrier, in addition to asking how they did it (e.g., through books, help from a teacher, etc.),
make sure to ask at what age they started Go, and at what age they made the breakthrough.

The rate of improvement at age 9 is slightly different than at 45.Nice.

Well for example here is a game I played yesterday (I was black).
This is not particularly a good game to ask advice about, but maybe it's good to show you where I am.

I made several mistakes but probably I was still ahead until I made an absolute stupid game losing mistake.

(this point is out of order but this was the main feature of this game for me)
- I was very proud about the ladder I set up early in the game (not something I normally do). Even though later I became lazy and played _two_ unnecessary moves to "secure" it.

- wC15 surprised me (I expected F16) but I think I came out good with that ladder (even after the B-52 shape :p)
- bH4 should probably be at H2
- bK5 was probably paranoid but I really didn't want that nice moyo get somehow destroyed.
- wN5 was severe. I didn't see it coming.
- for some reason I felt good about how I handled the upper right corner invasion, I can't recall now why though.
- not playing E2 lost the game for me. I tried to reduce the damage with that KO but it didn't turn out too well.

I'd appreciate any advice you may have.

Find a teacher. A shodan or better.

Good luck!

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

From around 8k to 3k I found the same thing worked at each level: reducing the blunder rate. Of course I was also reading books, playing games, having them reviewed, all the usual things. But in most games I lost it was because I committed too many blunders (for my current level at that time). I don't really know how to reduce blunders, except I guess to focus on how unpleasant is to lose a won game for a moment of inattention, and use that painful feeling to help me concentrate. I've also learnt thru experience that an excellent way to lose a game is to get confident that the game is won and to relax.

well, first start with the pilars for improvement. play games, review them, solve problems and read go books.

here some pages talking about that:

http://gogameguru.com/how-to-get-better-at-go/
http://mechner.com/david/go/improve.html
http://senseis.xmp.net/?BenjaminTeuber% ... comeStrong

Regarding the game you posted:


One thing I didn't mention is that black's joseki choice in the bottom right seems a bit weird, and this joseki is probably on its way to being discarded. Attaching underneath at R5 or pincering both seem more normal.

One, you made a lot of plays that just aimed at making territory for yourself. That's inefficient. Bad habit.

Two, you made a lot of small plays. Related to point one, but worse.

Three, you failed to attack. Also related to point one.

Avoiding these bad habits can gain you a couple of stones with the technical skills that you now have. Attacking, OC, could backfire if your opponent is a better fighter. But on balance it will be a winner for you.

Four, you failed to seal off the center when you had a chance.

Five, you missed the double sente.

Six, you failed to seal off the bottom left corner.

Seven, you then made ko instead of life.

These last are technical points, but the technique involved is not difficult.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

skydyr, Bill Spight, thank you for your insightful comments on my game!
Some of them were true eye-openers. As if I was looking straight at something yet still failing to notice.
I did have a bad feeling playing some of the moves both of you labeled bad, so maybe I'm not totally hopeless .
I see I need to play more aggressively, though I don't think I could pull off such a masterful attack as shown in the top right corner - yet .

I'd also like to thank all other people for their advice. Hopefully I'll be able to get better eventually!

peti, Listen to Bill.

A bit more info on why your attach is bad:

Peti29,
Reading ability? Have three ways to live or to reach your goal.

Fundamentals? (read the book, Lessons in the Fundamentals)
Read and study a book on good shape. (Making Good Shape: Mastering the Basics, Volume 3) 245 problems.
There are several good books by Rob van Zeijst and Richard Bozulich to read and study.
The Workshop Lectures by Yi Lun Yang. Six short volumes. EXCELLENT lessons. Clear, large format.
Single Digit Kyu Game Commentaries by Yuan Zhou. These are EXCELLENT commentaries on kyu level games, ~4 to 8 kyu players. They make MANY mistakes.
Direction of play? (read the book, Direction of Play)

Are you happy to capture the small group in gote?
Kyu players make many errors.
Priority of moves? Urgent > Important. Big > Small. Double sente > sente > reverse sente > gote.

Your 2-stone game of 16 February, 2014:
W29 atari. You can divide, in gote.
B48 play at H2 to connect underneath.
B58, capture by geta, in gote. Read. Can the single W stone escape? No. White gets sente!
B104?
B166 protect the cut at E2 instead of a ko fight? You win the ko fight, in gote, again. White takes sente and quickly makes 10+ points.

My heuristic for 5 Kyu: Can you reduce a group to bulky five and kill it?
Can you enclose your opponent's group, can you squeeze it from the outside to a bulky five eye-shape, then place a stone at the vital spot to kill it?
Study life and death problems.

I started go at 45, and broke through the 6k barrier by getting a better understanding of what "urgent before big" meant, and I got past 5k with my professional advice method - which whether it works or not is an excellent way of keeping the game fun.

_________________
Patience, grasshopper.

Typically, when you hit a "wall" in your go improvement it means your basic fundamentals aren't any good.

<insert eventual argument about what basic fundamentals are here. its interesting to discuss but not useful for my current point>

what this means is that all your previous deficiencies add up and consistently show up in your games to prevent you from beating someone higher than your current rank.

a past teacher i had said it this way: "if the foundation is bad, it can only go so high. if the foundation is good, you can keep improving/building"

how do you fix this?
it depends on how much you really want to work at it (seriously)
if you're fixing the problem at the root, you'll need a professional teacher who can show you proper shape and responses. this will take awhile, maybe 1 year or more depending on your effort (dead honest).

if you're not willing to put forth that type of effort, you can devise some ideas or concepts of how to approach the game. it is possible to improve with that mindset, however you will never be a "firm" rank, because it will be very easy for you to lose to someone with better fundamentals very quickly.

In my previous game, regarding black 4 and Bill's suggestion:
Yes I absolutely love that joseki. The problem is, lately my opponents tend to bump into my 4-3 stone instead of the outer hane. I don't like / know the complicated josekis that follow (e.g. avalanche). The simple version would just seal me in, giving too much influence for white in the middle of my would-have-been double wing-(ish thing).
Thus I decided I want the lower side rather than fight for the corner.

Now something different:
I'm feeling a little bit stronger now. But a new, uncomfortable feeling is when looking back at a game I feel that not I won but rather my opponent lost. Like in my last game.

Initially I didn't want to, but I can't resist to post this game too (I'm black):


- lower left: it turned out later when I checked it in Kogo's that that joseki is valid against the 4-4 stone too. I thought I made a mistake there, but it seemed still ok
- lower right: here is the aforementioned joseki Bill suggested in my other game. I diverted at the end because I didn't want to have all my stones low on the 3rd line on the bottom side. (Also I misremembered and thought that there is a variation like that. I have no idea what the punishment from white should have been.)
- upper right: I played out a joseki without knowing. I'm proud. Also I really liked how it turned out: my wall with the G17 stone.
- upper left: I thought about double approach but honestly I had no idea about how to do it.
- white's K17 invasion: they say you gotta harass your opponent towards your wall. My problem usually is: how? I was content with the result, except now my top left group was weak.
- I think sacrificing the D14 stone was good idea.
- then I got to harass another weak white group which eventually allowed to save my weak top group but that was only luck.
- even worse: after white O6 and O7 my N6 group was in big trouble. I think my opponent shouldn't have let that escape.
- it was again only luck that black L4 turned out to be sente, so I could save my lover right corner group
- so lucky again: the left for dead D-14 stone was just at the best place
- the rest was endgame. (I liked K18. G13 was misread - I thought that was going to be atari on the G11 group)

My main concern with those lucky situations is that I can't reproduce them. And I can't expect to always get lucky...

[EDIT]pointless comments... missed post #12 sorry...[EDIT]
Hello,

First, I would like to say that you certainly way play better then me...
so the intents of the following comments is just to tell you things that I didn't understand in the game,
but I suppose it's just me... anyway here we go...

My understanding first :

- move B14 - If I understand well, the intent is an invasion to reduce white potential...
- move W15 - White pincered
- move B16 - you exited to the center
- move W17 - Corner get protected by white

My comments are :

- At 14, why not attacking the corner from the other side at F 17 ? or just make a wing at K17 or K16 ? did that invasion really succeded ? ( If we go to let's say move 35, what I seen in this top-left area is trapped, over concentreted stones ...)

- If 14 like you played, then at 16, why not "really invading the corner" with the 3-3 point invasion joseki ?
- Move B18 - still a try to enter or reduce more ?, seems to me that there are bigger points with playing tenuki on top ?...


Once again, I just try to understand from my level... if my comments are useless, just ignore... (or even better let me know why )

_________________
Converting the book Shape UP! by Charles Matthews/Seong-June Kim
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216

oca, did you look at Bill's Post #12 ?