Recently I have noticed a trend in gaming and game clubs, where the atmosphere is described as "casual". For some reason, I find this fairly annoying. I have been thinking about it, and I think what I dislike about it, is that it seems to be a way to manage expectations, IE you can't expect to have a really good time at a casual club, furthermore it seems to imply that if it isn't casual, then it must be serious and serious isn't fun, and if you happen to be enthusiastic about playing go and study some, then you are taking it too seriously. Anyway, is there any atmosphere better for playing go than Casual? I have been brain storming, and I think "Enthusiastic" would be preferred to "Casual"... Thoughts?

How about just "Go Club," or "Game Club," or something similarly neutral without any qualification? If you label it "Enthusiastic," you run the risk of scaring of new players who can be the lifeblood of any club.

How about: "The atmosphere at our club ranges from friendly to bloodthirsty."

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Patience, grasshopper.

Is the implication, casual=>friendly, enthusiastic=>bloodthirsty? Must be one of those West Coast passive aggressive things.

I don't think so.

I feel like "friendly" is different from "casual." Casual means that players just play games. They don't really care much about outcomes or study - they just want to play. It might imply conversation occurs during games, but doesn't require it. Friendly means that players come for the relationships built with fellow members. People smile and laugh and talk with each other during games.

As for "enthusiastic" and "bloodthirsty"... Enthusiastic would seem to imply that the club is fanatical about the game. They want to play a lot. It would probably also imply the game is studied and people play to get better. At the very least they demonstrate a love of the game itself. Bloodthirsty is a pure play-to-win mentality. People don't help one another learn more because their own secrets to success are just that - secrets. I've been to a bloodthirsty chess club before. It is a unique atmosphere. A couple of players set up boards and then challengers approach them. If you lose you leave your seat and a new challenger takes on the winner. There is no talking. There is only the game. It can be exciting to play this way, but it can also be intimidating to new players.

This is just my impression of the terms.

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"You have to walk before you can run. Black 1 was a walking move.
I blushed inwardly to recall the ignorant thoughts that had gone through
my mind before, when I had not realized the true worth of Black 1."
-Kageyama Toshiro on proper moves

To me the label "casual" connotes a lack of formality between go players, and doesn't reflect the nature of the games played. A new visitor to the club might be concerned about general etiquette, but knowing the it's considered a casual environment would be more likely to feel welcome.

My take on it is, they do care about the outcome, they want to win without trying.

I can agree that there is some truth to this. Casual gamers do want to win without putting in the effort to get better. However, any person who has played a game like go for any length of time will have to eventually acknowledge the value of study and playing to get better. Then they have three options: 1. Decide to study themselves to get better so they can win. 2. Decide that study is not worth it and become comfortable with whatever outcome occurs. 3. Stop playing altogether.

Sometimes, one or two players studying furiously while others do nothing about it can hurt the dynamics of the club. At my university's club we play go, chess, shogi (Japanese chess), and xiangqi (Chinese chess). One of the other players and I have a pact going that neither of us will study the strategy of xiangqi outside of playing games at the club so that neither of us gains an advantage over the other. The idea is that, as long as neither of us does, our games will be about even. I have no aspirations of becoming a xiangqi master, so I'm okay with this. The goal is to keep the atmosphere of our games friendly and casual. I am already well beyond him in go, I was always better at him in chess, and I studied some shogi before he'd ever played the game, so I'm better there as well. Xiangqi was the last game we play and our last chance to be able to play even games without me just not trying against him. He had stopped playing the other games because other players that attended regularly were just better than him. He would only play when one of the weaker non-regulars or a new person came. Now I have a game I can play with him, which is really the whole point of our club anyway - to play games.

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"You have to walk before you can run. Black 1 was a walking move.
I blushed inwardly to recall the ignorant thoughts that had gone through
my mind before, when I had not realized the true worth of Black 1."
-Kageyama Toshiro on proper moves

The atmosphere at our club is 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen, and 0.9% argon.

This sounds a little odd. Where do you live that there are enough different 'gaming and game clubs' that you can 'notice a trend' among the ones described as 'casual' versus the ones described as something else? If there are so many clubs available and so much variety, why aren't you simply playing at the non-casual variety and leaving the casual types to their own devices and enjoyments?

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Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21

I can't imagine why anyone would want to take casual gaming so seriously. I mean really it's just so ... Casual.

I am not sure what you mean.

There might simply be a need to differentiate the more serious games from the ones less so. The word "casual" was picked, for whatever reason. We can all agree to use a different word, but I can see you having a problem with that down the line as well. A word is just a word, what's important is the meaning, and apparently people in a club like playing games which are not very serious, whatever the name of such games.

Same with the general club atmosphere - it is what it is because of the people involved, and it will not change if you try to force a different name on it.

Do you observe beginners being put off by the word "casual"? Then maybe it is worth changing it.

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- Bantari
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WARNING: This post might contain Opinions!!

I don't think it is the word casual that I have a problem with as much as the antonym being "Serious". Do you seriously think people who like to study, are taking the game seriously?

I think in this context "casual" is being used as the antonym to "formal", not "serious".

A formal go club would record kifu of the games, maintain their own ranking, hold regular tournaments and ladders. A casual go club just plays games. Either can involve studying, review, discussions of strategy, etc.

So whats the difference between casual and informal? I'm fine with an informal game of go.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/informal

It seems the dictionary makes a distinction: "suitable to or characteristic of casual and familiar, but educated, speech or writing."

",but educated "

What does that mean to you in the context of a go game? What makes a game of go formal, informal, or casual?

My understanding is that casual and informal both mean a range of things, and that there's a nexus where they mean the same thing, basically: without prescribed regulation or ceremony. A formal dinner has rules about dress and etiquette and using your forks in the right order. An informal dinner or a casual dinner mean basically the same thing: don't worry about that stuff.

In this context, informal seems more focused on the lack of a larger structure to the games, or say, a pre-agreed upon super-ko rule. Casual seems more focused on the lack of ceremony: Maybe played without clocks, with new matches being struck up at random after the previous one ended, and results remembered but not recorded.

You can of course also describe a game as casual to mean the players weren't really trying.

So a casual club could be that they don't try hard, or it could be that there's no ceremony and little structure. So it might be different than informal or synonymous. I tend to interpret casual in this context to mean informal, but it's not the only possible reading.

I don't think casual denotes a lack of structure, but simply denotes lack of stated structure, which is another annoying aspect of casualness, though some people prefer the cliquishness, gold chains, petty politics and such.

That.

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- Bantari
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WARNING: This post might contain Opinions!!

I still think that its a matter of a word, nothing more.

People say baduk or go, why?
People say goban or go board, why?
People say kifu or game record, why?
And does it matter?

For whatever reason the informal games are called "casual" games.
Do you really think it is worth to make a fuss over that?

If you can show that the word has some negative effects on something, acquisition of beginners for example, then you might have a point. Otherwise, it is just some little thing that everybody is ok with but for some reason it bugs you personally. I'd say - get over it, it is really not very important.

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- Bantari
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WARNING: This post might contain Opinions!!