It is currently Thu May 01, 2025 9:27 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: This tsumego problem
Post #1 Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 6:05 pm 
Dies in gote

Posts: 44
Liked others: 70
Was liked: 0
Rank: KGS 11 kyu
KGS: cherryhill
Kaya handle: cherryhill
This is from the problems within the WBaduk client. Specifically this is question 190 from the 19k-15k set.

The problem asks for black life but I am confused how this isn't a dual life problem?

The answer is black S4 then white goes to R1 and black makes life by playing S2. I don't understand why white doesn't play S2 instead.



Attachments:
tsumego.sgf [132 Bytes]
Downloaded 715 times
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: This tsumego problem
Post #2 Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 6:17 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 773
Location: Michigan, USA
Liked others: 143
Was liked: 218
Rank: KGS 1 kyu
Universal go server handle: moyoaji
You are correct that white S2 does lead to seki. In life and death problems, seki is usually seen as "good enough" for life. There are some problems that ask you to avoid seki, but in this case it seems fine. Black can't do better.

I don't see why white doesn't play that way. Either way white gets sente and this way black has the possibility of a half point ko for later.

Perhaps white fears that black will use the threat of ending the seki at R3 as a ko threat in some larger fight? But that would be a strange ko threat - you basically never want to do that.

Or maybe white wants the extra liberty at the 1-1 point for his outside wall?

It could also just be the variation the problem writers wanted to include. Maybe they thought seki wouldn't be a good answer for 19-15k players?

_________________
"You have to walk before you can run. Black 1 was a walking move.
I blushed inwardly to recall the ignorant thoughts that had gone through
my mind before, when I had not realized the true worth of Black 1."

-Kageyama Toshiro on proper moves


This post by moyoaji was liked by: cherryhill
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: This tsumego problem
Post #3 Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 11:02 pm 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 699
Location: Switzerland
Liked others: 485
Was liked: 166
Rank: DDK
KGS: aco
IGS: oca
OGS: oca
:b1: at S4 is fine for me but I don't understand how :w2: at S2 would lead to seki ?
I would then play :b3: and that all over for white isn'it ...


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . O O O |
$$ . . . . O X X |
$$ . . . O X 1 . |
$$ . . . O X . X |
$$ . . . O X 2 O |
$$ . . . O 3 O . |
$$ --------------[/go]

_________________
Converting the book Shape UP! by Charles Matthews/Seong-June Kim
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: This tsumego problem
Post #4 Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 11:04 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 773
Location: Michigan, USA
Liked others: 143
Was liked: 218
Rank: KGS 1 kyu
Universal go server handle: moyoaji
oca wrote:
:b1: at S4 is fine for me but I don't understand how :w2: at S2 would lead to seki ?
I would then play :b3: and that all over for white isn't it ...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . O O O |
$$ . . . . O X X |
$$ . . . O X 1 . |
$$ . . . O X . X |
$$ . . . O X 2 O |
$$ . . . O 3 O . |
$$ --------------[/go]

Can black put white in atari to capture him?

_________________
"You have to walk before you can run. Black 1 was a walking move.
I blushed inwardly to recall the ignorant thoughts that had gone through
my mind before, when I had not realized the true worth of Black 1."

-Kageyama Toshiro on proper moves

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: This tsumego problem
Post #5 Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 11:20 pm 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 699
Location: Switzerland
Liked others: 485
Was liked: 166
Rank: DDK
KGS: aco
IGS: oca
OGS: oca
moyoaji wrote:
oca wrote:
:b1: at S4 is fine for me but I don't understand how :w2: at S2 would lead to seki ?
I would then play :b3: and that all over for white isn't it ...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . O O O |
$$ . . . . O X X |
$$ . . . O X 1 . |
$$ . . . O X . X |
$$ . . . O X 2 O |
$$ . . . O 3 O . |
$$ --------------[/go]

Can black put white in atari to capture him?


:blackeye: of course he can't :oops: ... seky... or maybe...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ . . . . 5 7 9 |
$$ . . . 3 O O O |
$$ . . . 1 O X X |
$$ . . 8 O X X . |
$$ . . 6 O X . X |
$$ . . 4 O X O O |
$$ . . 2 O X O . |
$$ --------------[/go]


but that would happend only if I'm white :D

_________________
Converting the book Shape UP! by Charles Matthews/Seong-June Kim
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216


This post by oca was liked by: moyoaji
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: This tsumego problem
Post #6 Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 5:23 am 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 359
Location: Ghent, Belgium
Liked others: 72
Was liked: 199
GD Posts: 11
KGS: Hushfield
This problem is also featured in Lee Changho's Life and Death series, vol.1, problem 37 on pp.75-76. The solution given there is the same as the one proposed by the WBaduk client. If anyone can read Chinese, you might find more on this in the book.

The variation leading to seki is one point better for white, and white retains sente in both variations, so I don't understand why the authors would choose this variation.

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group