question about a clamp on second line

TheBigH · **#21**

Heres my solution

Bill Spight · **#22**

Thanks, Herman.

I guess I'm not being real clear. (:

Big H, how about hiding your post for oca's benefit.

Edit: Thanks, Big H.

oca · **#23**

@Herman

Thanks (again), seems I have to improve my english as well

So ... I will say any of these moves may help white to play at :et:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]B $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . $$ | . O X X . . . . . , . $$ | 1 X T c d X . O . . . $$ | . O a b e . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ -----------------------[/go]

@TheBigH

I tryied that one but didn't liked :b4:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . $$ | . O X X a . . . . , . $$ | X X 2 . 3 X . O . . . $$ | . O 4 1 . b . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ -----------------------[/go]

but seems we cannot have it all....

HermanHiddema · **#24**

@Bill: You're plenty clear to me, but of course we share a long exposure to the jargon and do not expect something like "descend" to be unfamiliar. I feel that perhaps oca was interpreting "threat" in the context of "ko-threat", and from that point of view it makes sense find the best two moves in a row.

@TheBig: What about:

Bill Spight · **#25**

oca wrote:

Bill Spight wrote:

First question: What other ways are there of capturing the :bc:

stones besides :w3:

?

This one seems to be better then my first try at "a"

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . $$ | . O X X . . . . . , . $$ | B B 1 . . X . O . . . $$ | a O 3 . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ -----------------------[/go]

Bill Spight wrote:

Second question: What are local threats to make the cut that also threaten something else? (Really a repeat question, but answer the first question first.

)

tryied that but :b6:

is a little annoying... but :w5:

is still a threat I suppose.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . $$ | . O . . 6 . . . . . . $$ | . O B B 5 . . . . , . $$ | X X 1 3 4 X . O . . . $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ -----------------------[/go]

or even that : [edit] but that goes a bit too far I think...[/edit]

Herman was right about my second question. I meant what plays threaten :w1:

in these diagrams, and threaten something else, too.

But leave that for now and let's go back to my first question.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . $$ | . O X X . . . . . , . $$ | B B 1 . . X . O . . . $$ | . O 3 . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ -----------------------[/go]

is good. Now, can you find all of the ways that, given :w1:

, White can capture the :bc:

stones?

oca · **#26**

Bill Spight wrote:

Thanks, Herman.

I guess I'm not being real clear. (:

No... no..., It's really just me :oops:

, when I read your message again it is really clear... I don't know why I didn't got it the first time.

ez4u · **#27**

HermanHiddema wrote:

@Bill: You're plenty clear to me, but of course we share a long exposure to the jargon and do not expect something like "descend" to be unfamiliar. I feel that perhaps oca was interpreting "threat" in the context of "ko-threat", and from that point of view it makes sense find the best two moves in a row.

@TheBig: What about:

@Herman

ez4u · **#28**

Actually...

HermanHiddema · **#29**

@ez4u: Yes, I just added it because I think it is a variation one should consider. If the surrounding stones are different, the "live in the corner" can be an interesting alternative. E.g:

oca · **#30**

Bill Spight wrote:

Herman was right about my second question. I meant what plays threaten :w1:

in these diagrams, and threaten something else, too.

But leave that for now and let's go back to my first question.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . $$ | . O X X . . . . . , . $$ | B B 1 . . X . O . . . $$ | . O 3 . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ -----------------------[/go]

is good. Now, can you find all of the ways that, given :w1:

, White can capture the :bc:

stones?

Not sure I got them all, but here are all ready quite a few...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W black 4 doesn't work... $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . $$ | . O X X . . . . . , . $$ | B B 1 3 . X . O . . . $$ | . O 4 5 . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ -----------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . $$ | . O X X . . . . . , . $$ | B B 1 4 . X . O . . . $$ | . O 5 3 . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ -----------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . $$ | . O X X . . . . . , . $$ | B B 1 4 . X . O . . . $$ | . O 5 3 . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ -----------------------[/go]

works too to take the black stones... but seems we loose a soldier in these variations...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . $$ | . O X X . . . . . , . $$ | B B 1 4 . X . O . . . $$ | . O 5 6 3 . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ -----------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . $$ | . O X X . . . . . , . $$ | B B 1 4 3 X . O . . . $$ | . O 5 6 . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ -----------------------[/go]

Uberdude · **#31**

oca wrote:

I tryied that one but didn't liked :b4:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ | . . c O . . . . . . . $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . $$ | . O X X a . . . . , . $$ | X X 2 . 3 X . O . . . $$ | . O 4 1 . b . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ -----------------------[/go]

but seems we cannot have it all....

If by all you mean kill every black stone, then yes that's an unreasonable expectation of a fair outcome for you.

But that above diagram is already REALLY good for white and in fact black isn't even alive in the corner and he might even die, so you might get it all after all! Btw 4 is a mistake, black should play a and white answers at b to get out into the centre*, then playing at 4 might be good (but probably not) or some move on the outside. If black plays 4 immediately white is happy to play a.

*(for more advanced players) black at a is not the only choice here and exchanging for b could be a bad exchange due to other options using the aji at c. Particularly if black wedged instead of connect for 2 then this sort of variation looks interesting (so maybe white won't cut at 7 but answer on 2nd line to avoid giving black 8 and 10 in sente, but then he has other problems, depends on left side). If black resistances like this are effective then perhaps white should play 5 at b directly.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ | . . 9 a . . . . . . . $$ | . . 6 O 0 . . . . . . $$ | . O 7 8 . . . . . . . $$ | . O X X . . . . . , . $$ | X X 4 . 5 X . O . . . $$ | . O 2 1 . b . . . . . $$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . $$ -----------------------[/go]

TheBigH · **#32**

@ez4u

Uberdude · **#33**

@TheBigH

EdLee · **#34**

TheBigH,

question about a clamp on second line

Who is online