It is currently Sun May 04, 2025 11:16 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Reading Practice
Post #1 Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:03 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 641
Liked others: 142
Was liked: 438
GD Posts: 9
White played N3, Black will certainly respond at O2. Does White N3 lead anywhere?

Image


Last edited by logan on Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Reading Practice
Post #2 Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:13 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1585
Location: Barcelona, Spain (GMT+1)
Liked others: 577
Was liked: 298
Rank: KGS 5k
KGS: RBerenguel
Tygem: rberenguel
Wbaduk: JohnKeats
Kaya handle: RBerenguel
Online playing schedule: KGS on Saturday I use to be online, but I can be if needed from 20-23 GMT+1
logan wrote:
White played N3, Black will certainly respond at O2. Does White N3 lead anywhere?

Image


Wrong image? No hotlinking allowed maybe?

_________________
Geek of all trades, master of none: the motto for my blog mostlymaths.net

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Reading Practice
Post #3 Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:46 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1378
Location: wHam!lton, Aotearoa
Liked others: 253
Was liked: 105
...B O2, O3, P3, L5, N6?, M5, M6, K8, ... But black gets away from me at some point here.

_________________
Revisiting Go - Study Journal
My Programming Blog - About the evolution of my go bot.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Reading Practice
Post #4 Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:42 am 
Oza

Posts: 2180
Location: ʍoquıɐɹ ǝɥʇ ɹǝʌo 'ǝɹǝɥʍǝɯos
Liked others: 237
Was liked: 662
Rank: AGA 5d
GD Posts: 4312
Online playing schedule: Every tenth February 29th from 20:00-20:01 (if time permits)
After black replies with O2 and white pushes once more, N10 appears to be the move which guarantees catching something. Without a diagram to edit I cannot show the sequence but basically it is:

N10 threatens the 4 stones at P11 so B must defend.
Then a squeeze on the stones at L3 allows W to get stones at K8, L8, M8
Finally W cuts at K10.

After that B does not have enough liberties to play L10 and so must play K9. But the stone at N10 protects and so W wins.

That's a 23 move sequence and I may have missed something, but if someone can create a board it can be put out and checked.

_________________
Still officially AGA 5d but I play so irregularly these days that I am probably only 3d or 4d over the board (but hopefully still 5d in terms of knowledge, theory and the ability to contribute).

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Reading Practice
Post #5 Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:12 am 
Judan

Posts: 6727
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 436
Was liked: 3720
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
DrStraw: nice idea, but I wonder about black defending against n10 with m11. If white does the rest of your sequence then m11 ends up in the perfect place to cut at m10 if white blocks at m9. And if white plays m9 as m10 extension then black pushes on through and survives. Maybe white has a clever answer to m11 to maintain miai of capturing the 4 stones or that k10 sequence, need to read more...

Edit. Oh hahaha, even after black m10 cut black has a problem: white ladders the 4 stones and ends with a double atari. Very neat!

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Reading Practice
Post #6 Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:35 am 
Oza

Posts: 2180
Location: ʍoquıɐɹ ǝɥʇ ɹǝʌo 'ǝɹǝɥʍǝɯos
Liked others: 237
Was liked: 662
Rank: AGA 5d
GD Posts: 4312
Online playing schedule: Every tenth February 29th from 20:00-20:01 (if time permits)
Uberdude wrote:
DrStraw: nice idea, but I wonder about black defending against n10 with m11. If white does the rest of your sequence then m11 ends up in the perfect place to cut at m10 if white blocks at m9. And if white plays m9 as m10 extension then black pushes on through and survives. Maybe white has a clever answer to m11 to maintain miai of capturing the 4 stones or that k10 sequence, need to read more...


After M11 if B plays M10 himself there is a threat to capture M11, but does it come to anything? This is too much to read in a forum diagram. If we had been playing the game and thinking about moves for a hour or so before reaching this point it would be easier to see all the possibilities. Having those three W stones on the 8-line certainly has potential.

We need a diagram. Where is the original SGF file? Even if this does not work I think it would be instructive for a lot of people to see it. Most kyu players would not think of N10 and in slightly different situations it definitely could work.

_________________
Still officially AGA 5d but I play so irregularly these days that I am probably only 3d or 4d over the board (but hopefully still 5d in terms of knowledge, theory and the ability to contribute).

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Reading Practice
Post #7 Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:06 am 
Judan

Posts: 6727
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 436
Was liked: 3720
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
Using http://hiddema.nl/diagrammer/ here's the basic relevant position:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X X X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O O X . . . . X X O X . |
$$ | . . . , . O . O X , . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . O X O X X . . . . . X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . O X X X X . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O O X . . . X O O . O . |
$$ | . . . . O O O . O X . . . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X . . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


And I think your answer works, but my m11 is a strong resistance which doesn't quite succeed but does make the full sequence 37 moves :)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X X X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O O X . . . . X X O X . |
$$ | . . . , . O . O X , . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . O X O X X . . . . . X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . O X X X X . . . . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O O X . . . X O O . O . |
$$ | . . . . O O O . O X . . . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X 7 0 9 . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X 8 . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X 1 3 5 6 X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X 2 4 . . . X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm11
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X X X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O O X . . . . X X O X . |
$$ | . . . , . O . O X , . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . O X O X X . . . . . X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . O X X X X 5 7 9 . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O O X 6 8 0 X O O . O . |
$$ | . . . . O O O . O X 2 1 . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X 4 X O . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X 3 . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O O O X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X X X . . . X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm21
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X X X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . 9 O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O O X . 2 . 0 X X O X . |
$$ | . . . , . O . O X 3 5 8 1 O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . O X O X X 4 6 7 . . X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . O X X X X O O O . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O O X X X X X O O . O . |
$$ | . . . . O O O . O X X O . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X X X O . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O O O X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X X X . . . X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm31
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O O O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X X X X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . 6 3 . . X . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . 5 4 2 O O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O O X 7 X 1 X X X O X . |
$$ | . . . , . O . O X O O X O O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . O X O X X X X O . . X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . O X X X X O O O . X X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O O X X X X X O O . O . |
$$ | . . . . O O O . O X X O . X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X X X O . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X O . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O O O X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X X X . . . X O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


This post by Uberdude was liked by: DrStraw
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Reading Practice
Post #8 Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:44 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 641
Liked others: 142
Was liked: 438
GD Posts: 9
Congratulations, you guys got it.

The game was played between Liu Xing (W) and Zhou Ruiyang (B) during the 2013 Chinese Weiqi League. After Black filled F8, White extended to N3 and Black resigned. It was a memorable, high-level blunder during last year's Weiqi League.



Attachments:
2013-05-04.sgf [1.38 KiB]
Downloaded 631 times
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Reading Practice
Post #9 Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:54 am 
Oza

Posts: 2180
Location: ʍoquıɐɹ ǝɥʇ ɹǝʌo 'ǝɹǝɥʍǝɯos
Liked others: 237
Was liked: 662
Rank: AGA 5d
GD Posts: 4312
Online playing schedule: Every tenth February 29th from 20:00-20:01 (if time permits)
And here was I thinking you were asking a question about one of your own games!

_________________
Still officially AGA 5d but I play so irregularly these days that I am probably only 3d or 4d over the board (but hopefully still 5d in terms of knowledge, theory and the ability to contribute).

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group