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 Post subject: Should I have lost?
Post #1 Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 1:38 am 
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I feel this game wasn't over because white was ahead... Can someone explain why my opponent resigned?

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Post #2 Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 2:08 am 
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Hi barraktu, you would have to ask your opponent.
At these levels, had the game continued, nobody knows who would've won.

The upper left corner: study this joseki --
your :b29: connect looks very solid, but it's not joseki --
there are other variations, but study this basic one.

Every move in this sequence has its meaning.
See if you can figure out why the joseki move :b9: is extend, and not your solid connect :b29: .

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 Post subject: Re: Should I have lost?
Post #3 Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 7:58 am 
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My best guess would be that the extension instead of the solid connection is to stay ahead of the opponent and keep them sealed in the corner. In the game I made a solid connection because I was afraid of the cut on 15-D. But looking at it now, the cut doesn't seem as severe as I thought and trying to cut would have let me take away more of the corner territory. Thank you for the reply, I will try to get in contact with my opponent again.

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Post #4 Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 5:48 pm 
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barraktu wrote:
My best guess would be that the extension instead of the solid connection is to stay ahead of the opponent and keep them sealed in the corner. In the game I made a solid connection because I was afraid of the cut on 15-D. But looking at it now, the cut doesn't seem as severe as I thought
Good, but we're not done.
Let's study the joseki SGF in Post 2, to keep things simple.
Two homework problems for you:
- If B does not extend on :b9: , if B tenukis, then what is W's follow-up sequence ?
- After :b9: extends, what happens if W cuts D15 ( instead of :w10: ) ?

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 Post subject: Re: Should I have lost?
Post #5 Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:20 am 
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I'm pretty sure white's next move would be at C-13 after black tenukis. And I think after white cuts black can either push into white's corner or net the cutting stone.

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Post #6 Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:36 am 
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barraktu wrote:
I'm pretty sure white's next move would be at C-13 after black tenukis.
OK, and then ? That's a start, but a single move is not enough:
what is the sequence ? Please show your sequence, with a diagram or SGF.

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Post #7 Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:41 am 
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barraktu wrote:
I think after white cuts black can either push into white's corner or net the cutting stone.
OK, what are the exact sequences.
Please show with a diagram or SGF.

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 Post subject: Re: Should I have lost?
Post #8 Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:02 pm 
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I couldn't create the file correctly. But, In both scenarios I imagine the sequences would go as such:
B D-16 -
W - C-17
B D-17 -
W - C-16
B C-15 -
W - B-15
B C-14 -
W - B-14
Sequence One
B Q-4 -
W - B-13
B C-13 -
W - B-11
End Sequence One
B C-13 -
Sequence Two
W - D-15
B E-15 -
W - D-14
B E-13 -
W - D-14
B E-13 -
W - E-14
B F-14 -
W - D-13
B D-12 -

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Post #9 Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:18 pm 
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Good time to learn How to make Diagrams .

Also, good to figure out what happened to your SGF attempts. :)

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Post #10 Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:25 pm 
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Here's a start: you can use it as a template —
just click the button "quote" and edit as you wish:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B :b1: tenuki
$$ ---------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . . ,
$$ | . O X . . . . . . .
$$ | . O X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . ,
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

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Post #11 Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:47 pm 
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EdLee wrote:
Here's a start: you can use it as a template —
just click the button "quote" and edit as you wish:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B :b1: tenuki
$$ ---------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . . ,
$$ | . O X 2 3 . . . . .
$$ | . O X 4 8 9 . . . .
$$ | . . X 6 5 . . . . .
$$ | . . . 7 . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . ,
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

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Post #12 Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:48 pm 
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barraktu wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . . ,
$$ | . O X 2 3 . . . . .
$$ | . O X 4 8 9 . . . .
$$ | . . X 6 5 . . . . .
$$ | . . . 7 . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .[/go]
Right — in your variation above,
:w8: is self-atari, so W would not play it.

So :b5: nets the two :white: stones:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . . ,
$$ | . O X 2 3 . . . . .
$$ | . O B 4 . . . . . .
$$ | . . 1 . 5 . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

Which means there is no cut at :w2: after :b1: extends,
which means the two extends, :bc: and :b1: , are a more efficient way
to fix the cut than your solid connect :b29: .

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Post #13 Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:54 pm 
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The other homework problem: what happens after :w2: ?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B :b1: tenuki
$$ ---------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . . ,
$$ | . O X . . . . . . .
$$ | . O X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . ,
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

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Post #14 Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 11:19 pm 
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EdLee wrote:
The other homework problem: what happens after :w2: ?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B :b1: tenuki
$$ ---------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . . ,
$$ | . O X 3 . 5 . . . .
$$ | . O X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 2 4 . 6 . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . ,
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

This one is interesting to me. I'm no sure if I get it.

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Post #15 Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 11:46 pm 
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You are very, very scared of cuts. (Probably because some players cut you into pieces and you died many horrible deaths ? )
The solution is not to connect every single cut as soon as you are worried.
Rather, strive to improve your reading and fighting skills.

B would hane at :b3: — and then ?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B :b1: tenuki
$$ ---------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . . ,
$$ | . O X . . . . . . .
$$ | . O X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 2 3 . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . ,
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

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Post #16 Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 12:14 am 
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EdLee wrote:
"Probably because some players cut you into pieces and you died many horrible deaths ?"
That made me chuckle by it truthfulness.
B would hane at :b3: — and then ?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B :b1: tenuki
$$ ---------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . . ,
$$ | . O X 4 6 . . . . .
$$ | . O X 5 . . . . . .
$$ | . . 2 3 . . . . . .
$$ | . . 8 7 . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . ,
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

Would it be something like this?

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Post #17 Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:39 am 
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W would double-hane at :w4: — and then ?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B :b1: tenuki
$$ ---------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . . ,
$$ | . O X . . . . . . .
$$ | . O X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 2 3 . . . . . .
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . ,
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

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Post #18 Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:44 am 
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barraktu wrote:
That made me chuckle by it truthfulness.
Isn't it interesting how much one can tell about a person from just two moves —
:b29: connect in post 1; and :b3: connect in post 14. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Should I have lost?
Post #19 Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 3:06 am 
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It's so bad to allow white the hane at 2 I'm not sure what's best, but this falling back might be better shape.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B :b1: tenuki
$$ ---------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . . ,
$$ | . O X . . . . . . .
$$ | . O X . 3 . . . . .
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . ,
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .[/go]


This post by Uberdude was liked by: Bill Spight
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 Post subject: Re: Should I have lost?
Post #20 Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:20 am 
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It would seem that the best move is to simply follow the joseki rather than deal with the consequences of trying to be fancy.

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