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 Post subject: First proper game on IGS for a while
Post #1 Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 4:49 pm 
Tengen
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Ok, so I'm trying to get some of the rust off, and I thought I'd post one of my games here for a change. I was playing Black, and although I won by killing something huge, the upper side and the transition to the middle of the board was very ... erm, out of my paygrade, so I thought I'd post here on the offchance people could show me where I could have been punished horribly (or not)



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 Post subject: Re: First proper game on IGS for a while
Post #2 Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 6:57 am 
Judan

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j17 looks a bit far, how would you answer l17? Similarly p14 was slack, how would you deal with k16? If you get separated there it looks difficult. White's d12 etc look pretty crap, approaching lower left is bigger, and then he proceeds to build a moyo with a black group already inside it, and then doesn't even split that overextended group!


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 Post subject: Re: First proper game on IGS for a while
Post #3 Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:12 am 
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LOL Come on 'dude, don't sugarcoat it. Tell us how you really feel! :D

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 Post subject: Re: First proper game on IGS for a while
Post #4 Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:39 am 
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Uberdude wrote:
j17 looks a bit far, how would you answer l17?


Yes, I wondered about this. Normal would obviously by K17, but I saw it on josekipedia last time I was messing around with responding to a low approach pincer this way, and I wanted to give it a go just to see what happened. I wasn't particularly comfortable with White's fairly obvious M16. Was bK17 bad after wK16?

I was also trying to sort of prevent wH17 with bJ17, but I think it's all a bit thin in hindsight.

Uberdude wrote:
Similarly p14 was slack, how would you deal with k16? If you get separated there it looks difficult.


Yes, I was intending on Q14 if he tenuki'd, but I think J17 @ K17 would make that a lot more viable. Having three weak groups is probably not all that smart :P

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 Post subject: Re: First proper game on IGS for a while
Post #5 Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:29 am 
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Some of the fighting here is way above my pay-grade, but could someone explain what's going on with B35? It seems like if you're walking with the stones this way and white already has E17 to limit your ability to continue pushing, shouldn't there be a time to hane at the head of the white stones? Especially if it leaves white's center weak?

Thanks for your time!
Marty Lund

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 Post subject: Re: First proper game on IGS for a while
Post #6 Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:37 pm 
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mlund wrote:
Some of the fighting here is way above my pay-grade, but could someone explain what's going on with B35? It seems like if you're walking with the stones this way and white already has E17 to limit your ability to continue pushing, shouldn't there be a time to hane at the head of the white stones? Especially if it leaves white's center weak?

Thanks for your time!
Marty Lund


I was fairly happy with being pushed from behind, because it was all points, and I felt the wall he was making was already a bit compromised. What I didn't want was him to hane at the head of my stones too soon, and as far as I could read, he could pretty much instantly cut any hanes up to that point. I might have been able to hane at 33, but then White can cut and extend, and I have problems with the L18/N18 combination again. That was my feelings at the time anyway :)

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 Post subject: Re: First proper game on IGS for a while
Post #7 Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:11 pm 
Dies with sente

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topazg wrote:
I was fairly happy with being pushed from behind, because it was all points, and I felt the wall he was making was already a bit compromised. What I didn't want was him to hane at the head of my stones too soon, and as far as I could read, he could pretty much instantly cut any hanes up to that point. I might have been able to hane at 33, but then White can cut and extend, and I have problems with the L18/N18 combination again. That was my feelings at the time anyway :)


Hey, thanks so much for the explanation! That makes sense. I wanted to make sure I wasn't overlooking some horrible catastrophe (that would be obvious to higher rank players) if B got cross-cut off the hane or some other way it just "wouldn't work."

Thanks again,
Marty Lund

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 Post subject: Re: First proper game on IGS for a while
Post #8 Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:53 am 
Judan

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topazg wrote:
Uberdude wrote:
j17 looks a bit far, how would you answer l17?


Yes, I wondered about this. Normal would obviously by K17, but I saw it on josekipedia last time I was messing around with responding to a low approach pincer this way, and I wanted to give it a go just to see what happened. I wasn't particularly comfortable with White's fairly obvious M16. Was bK17 bad after wK16?

I was also trying to sort of prevent wH17 with bJ17, but I think it's all a bit thin in hindsight.


Well that's not a joseki I'm familiar with, and I checked ps.waltheri.net and it seems no pros have played it ;-) . Black k17 seems ok to me as it connects you, blighting l15 doesn't matter so much if you dodge the bullet and get to connect. I might look if there are other ways to connect like l18. Maybe you can extend that far if the top left is more open rather than a solid shimari. Also you could push more on the right to allow a safer far extension, but then you kill of some of the aji of r15 which isn't so nice.

topazg wrote:
Uberdude wrote:
Similarly p14 was slack, how would you deal with k16? If you get separated there it looks difficult.


Yes, I was intending on Q14 if he tenuki'd, but I think J17 @ K17 would make that a lot more viable. Having three weak groups is probably not all that smart :P


Quite!

Also white k14 at first appeared to me going after the small fry of l15 but at least he played m13 cut. But how about white starting at l13? j13 is again rather too thin I feel. As noticed afterwards his way of cutting did make l18 work (n18 directly better style I think).


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 Post subject: Re: First proper game on IGS for a while
Post #9 Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:30 am 
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Uberdude wrote:
Well that's not a joseki I'm familiar with, and I checked ps.waltheri.net and it seems no pros have played it ;-) .


Ditto, it all seems rather rubbish really. I'm actually not even sure O17 is all that playable - now I'm suspicious it's too close and flat.

Uberdude wrote:
I might look if there are other ways to connect like l18. Maybe you can extend that far if the top left is more open rather than a solid shimari. Also you could push more on the right to allow a safer far extension, but then you kill of some of the aji of r15 which isn't so nice.


Mmm, I thought L18 got pressed down a bit too easily, but I could be wrong. And yeah, I really didn't want to push too far, as R15 really wanted to do something interesting later. Wanting to utilise R15 properly feels reason alone not to make such a big extension really.

Uberdude wrote:
... But how about white starting at l13? j13 is again rather too thin I feel. As noticed afterwards his way of cutting did make l18 work (n18 directly better style I think).


Yes, L13 was a move I didn't want to see. I'd considered J11 and L12 as responses, but I'd intended on J13 to give me leverage to cut one of those jumps on the left. I don't feel I could ever really rely on getting it connected. K14 did feel very poor by White. I was actually more worried about White playing something like J11.

Is N18 really better style? I figured you wouldn't want to force Black to capture on that side, as if you split on the other both are unsettled, no?

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 Post subject: Re: First proper game on IGS for a while
Post #10 Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:49 am 
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OMG! We are being haunted by the ghost of Oscar Korschelt!

Unlike Ed Lee, I think that it is fine to add coordinates to diagrams. :) But please, guys, how about adding diagrams to coordinates from time to time? Or an SGF file?

Anyway, here is an SGF file with a couple of comments.


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