In the following diagram, it would appear that both players have opened with a distinctly different strategy/game plan in mind.I look at it like both of the opponents are stating they're desire to accomplish different things than the other and its an argument as to who has the better plan and can execute it the best while being the most flexible to the others demands. So, these being two particular openings that appear to be entirely different from one another, how would you describe each players train of thought as they proceed from this point? What are they expecting from the other? Why these openings and how do they relate together on the board? Why wouldn't each player play a star point and a 3-4, or the Chinese opening? I'm looking for more theoretical ideas but specific moves and sequences would be appreciated too.

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[go]$$c A very common opening.
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Thinking like a go player during a game of chess is like bringing a knife to a gun-fight. Thinking like a chess player during a game of go feels like getting knifed while you're holding a gun...

Black: I feel like 3-4 today.

White: hmm... maybe star points this time?

More seriously, there are a variety of reasons to pick opening moves. Black may be tradition-minded, or may like to focus on territory a bit more, or may like the fighting from 3-4 pincers. Maybe they want to play the mini-chinese on top and fight, or maybe they just want to get 2 corner enclosures if white will let them. Maybe black feels more comfortable with 3-4 joseki, or wants to try them out.

For white's part, maybe white wants to stay flexible without committing to something too early, or wants to develop quickly around the board. White may also be thinking 'I <3 moyos' or 'I hate moyos so I'll get influence early to keep them from being a big problem. White may also just want a no-fuss throw down two stones in the corners and ignore them for a while to deal with black's side approach to the game.

It's really too early to say that either side have a particular game-plan at this point.

Perhaps the more interesting question, though, is what you think they want to do.

As for specifics, it's pretty straightforward...

Black may enclose a corner (d or the like), or go for mini-chinese (a, then b, then c) on the top, or kobayashi on the bottom (e, f, g). Black could approach from inside white's left to break it up and try and make the game about smaller groups (maybe not as recommended, but playable). Black could have a crazy strategy some pro wrote about where he follows this up with the 11-9 point or something. Black could just take a side star point or the equivalent 3rd line move. Chinese style with r9 or so would not be as good as normal Chinese, since white has a better approach to the top right.

As for white, it's harder to speak of strategy until black commits themselves to one direction or another. Due to the 1st move advantage, white is necessarily reacting to black in some fashion or other at the beginning of the game. White's choice is more a choice of direction in the face of black's moves, or of deciding to tenuki or not, until black takes gote. To some degree, I feel that 3-4 stones by white may be less committed to responding immediately to a black approach, since the approaches with tenuki turn into 5-3 or 5-4 joseki. On the other hand, a 3-4, 5-3 or 5-4 stone declares direction to start with, so it's less flexible in that respect. As far as one can speak of strategy here, it's probably to be able to settle quickly so that white can perform operations on black's side of the board.

You'd likely be better served by just looking at some pro games with these 4 opening moves and seeing what happens, to be honest.

White is expecting komi.

The question as you state it is not really well posed. Before komi, White would typically prevent Black's good enclosure in the top right, with . You do not state the komi in this game.

Black's concentration on the 4-3 point harks back to the Shuwa-Shusaku orthodox style, which in a nutshell emphasises the solidity of taking corners tightly, establishing a base for groups.

White, on the other hand, adopts the two-stars formation of the 1930s, which relies on a pacy, flexible style: the 4-4 point in the corner does not guarantee territory or a base, but does allow the first occupant of the corner to control the subsequent direction of play.

It is an infantry-cavalry distinction, if you like. While some parallel openings display reactive moves, so far this one doesn't. The two players simply show self-confidence.

My thoughts exactly! It is in this regard that I pose the question and am in search of deeper analysis of the core benefits of the basic first four moves. I'm not expecting that either player would at this point have any sort of specific strategy to follow but rather a general idea of how each player would like to benefit from the settling of the corners. Obviously, white has chosen to emphasize flexibility. Another way of saying this is that white would like to see more of black's plan before making too much of a commitment to a particular region of the board. And so getting to black's plan (and these are my personal assessments, you may interpret them as questions rather than authoritative statements) black primarily wants strong(but not necessarily large) corners that are difficult to attack effectively in order to free himself up for utilizing weaker groups elsewhere. In a weird sense, I feel that black is playing more aggressively by settling his position better/faster than white in order to attack with more tenacity. As for komi, I suppose what you're saying is that at your level, white will make significantly different decisions based on his starting compensation. Simple assume then that komi is the common 7.5 under area scoring or 6.5 under territory.

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Thinking like a go player during a game of chess is like bringing a knife to a gun-fight. Thinking like a chess player during a game of go feels like getting knifed while you're holding a gun...

Whenever I play that opening as Black, it has very little to do with territory directly. 3-4's are richer in joseki, and thus from a knowledge perspective I feel there is more to learn from 3-4's as an opener versus 4-4's.

White: I don't know any joseki
Black: I hate when they invade my 3-3

White: I don't like these joseki that take up half the board
Black: I'm tired of this 4-4, slide into corner, block corner joseki

White: Oh God I hope black doesn't pincer me
Black: I can't wait to try out this new trick play.

White: Oh boy diagonal fuseki. Nevermind...
Black: Hopefully White wants to play a diagonal fuseki... eh, changed my mind.

White: If I 3-4 black gets the first move to approach.
Black: Shimari everywhere!

White: Block the 3-4. I guess... another 4-4 I guess
Black: If I play two 3-4s I'm more likely to try out this new joseki.

Are thoughts I've had.
Lately it's just what pro game I've went through recently and the joseki I want to try out but then the opponent doesn't cooperate.
And can we get to the fighting already.
And always "Oh God I hope they don't pincer me"

Is there some reason that you have a distaste for being pincered? I typically prefer it depending on the overall position but I'm a more influence oriented player and so getting a base is rarely on my top to-do list.

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Thinking like a go player during a game of chess is like bringing a knife to a gun-fight. Thinking like a chess player during a game of go feels like getting knifed while you're holding a gun...

I don't spend a lot of time on joseki. So I feel like I'm always going to give my opponent too much.
They're going to play on both sides and I'm going to be stuck with a weak group.
Or I'm going to die at the start of the game and have to resign.
It was a bigger fear when I was a ddk. But I still worry about it sometimes.

It's interesting that you don't care about building bases because that's usually at the top of my list haha. I guess that would make me territory oriented. :]

There are a lot more variations of 3-4 pincers. This is especially true if you learned go from people who learned Japanese style 20 or 30 years ago. There are a lot of people who play from a small repertoire of 4-4 josekis, which is a little boring, but makes them feel "safe".

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Occupy Babel!

The classic Shusaku-type style with Black was an announcement "I'm going to win by three on the board, and if you play to disrupt me, I shall win by more".

You can get a 20th century take on these matters by observing Otake playing with Black, Takemiya with White. But of course the opening is much more deeply researched these days. The Kobayashi and mini-chinese styles are there because komi has crept up. Territorial players need options.