I don't follow the tournament scene closely any more and so catch up with trends rather late, but am I right in worrying that something serious may be happening in sponsorship of Korean go?

In 2016 the venerable Kuksu and Myeongin events seem to have disappeared (for both men and women), and the current tally of domestic titles seems to be something like 7 for men and 2 for women.

The international events seem to be going strong still, although increasing Chinese dominance may be taking the shine off. Korean sponsors do have a track record of being fickle (or more commercially hard nosed, if you prefer).

There were a couple of new domestic events this year, I think, but hardly of the stature of the stately Kuksu and Myeongin, and though I haven't checked I'd be amazed if these were not blitz events. And the photo gallery of title holders now looks exactly like those prom photo booklets they publish in American schools. Must be playing havoc with the demographics from the go sponsors' points of view if go really is still an old man's game.

Can anyone more in tune with what's happening provide some reassurance?

I think Lee Sedol won the 2016 myeongin in January - not sure about 2017. Park Junghwan is the current Kuksu title holder, but I don't see tournament for that one in 2016 - not sure why.

They still list Kuksu as a major title in the Korean monthly go magazine as of this month, though, so I don't think it's going away.

_________________
be immersed

http://m.sports.naver.com/general/news/ ... 0000468084

10대 뉴스 중에는 국내기전이 리그 중심 단체전으로 재편된 점도 꼽혔다. 바둑리그와 한국여자바둑리그에 이어 시니어리그가 출범함에 따라 바둑팬들은 1년 내내 바둑TV를 통해 다양한 리그전을 즐길 수 있게 됐다. 그러나 국수전과 명인전 등 전통의 기전들이 멈춰 선 것에 대한 아쉬움도 컸다.

Looks like kuksu and myeongin have been discontinued.

I don't really know what the overall situation is though.

I understand the Koreans are likely to be in serious trouble in the next few years. Most of their cup games are dying. To gave a few names, they lost the Siptan tournament in 2014, Prices Information cup in 2015. Things get significant worse this year, with Kuksk, Myeongin, Chunwon, Women's Myeongin tournament all gone. While their major league tournaments are very successful and influential, they are unable to support large quantify of players. Only the top 50 or so players can be accommodated in the Korean league, while the rest of players are probably starving.

One major problem, as already discussed in this forum, is that the league tournament is so closely tied to the interest of TV channels. To fit in TV schedules, there are too many fast games and much fewer slow games, arguably resulting in lower-quality games. The top Korean players' competitiveness in international tournaments suffers a lot from this.

As also been discussed here before, the system lacks flexibility. We therefore witnessed that farcical situation the Park Junghwan needed to travel hundreds of miles to catch a league game on the same day after competing in the Samsung cup quarter-final.

That's too bad. I liked the Kuksu tournament, in particular. Sad to see it go.

Oh well - I guess times are changing.

_________________
be immersed

Idle thought ( not expecting any replies ):

Anyone has rough numbers of the sponsorship money
( not counting product endorsements ; just annual total prize moneys )
of pro Go tourneys in Japan, Korea, and China
for (circa) 1990, 2000, 2010 ?
( One expects a gradual decline in Japan ; but China may have a differently shaped curve ; unsure about Korea. ) Thanks.

I think there were reports of a decline in Korea in go schools. Apparently young people are preferring video computer games. Sponsors might decide that sponsoring a baduk tournament is not reaching the population the sponsor wants. And some time ago the game fees for players were cut so it became even harder for baduk pros to make a living.

In Japan there was some news item to the effect that one of the up-and-coming young players (Ichiriki?) is going to university. A somewhat unusual thing for such a promising pro, taking time away from go. It might be a good move though, thinking about the long term.

Somewhat ironic that this should happen so soon after the flood of publicity coming from AlphaGo.

_________________
Still officially AGA 5d but I play so irregularly these days that I am probably only 3d or 4d over the board (but hopefully still 5d in terms of knowledge, theory and the ability to contribute).

Personally, I feel it kind of makes sense. AlphaGo beating Lee Sedol takes away some of the "magic" that I felt from pros before. Had Lee Sedol won the match, I wouldn't have this perception.

Don't get me wrong - I still respect pros and their abilities. But somehow the fact that Lee Sedol lost could lead to discouragement among his fans.

I like go enough that this doesn't keep me from playing, but there's some set of people for which this would be important, and I can understand the sentiment.

_________________
be immersed

Were I only a multi-lingual sociologist PhD candidate, what a lovely dissertation I could write examining the evolution of the Go/Baduk/Weiqi community over the past 20 years! The interrelationship between reductions in professional support, massive increase in casual play made possible via online/mobile gaming platforms, the advent of AlphaGo...

About the only things that have remained constant are the pieces, rules, and lack of players in the West

If I may sidetrack the thread: how many professionals does the game need? How does the ratio of professional to lay player compare to widely played sports like tennis or golf? Perhaps the ratio has historically been "pro-heavy" and is now reaching a new equilibrium?

With the current state of things go will only continue to decline in numbers despite the advent of our new teacher alphago.

Computer games are much more appealing to people and have likely swallowed up the young children who would have been competitive with go.

Sponsors will be moving from Go to League of Legends. If you have ever seen the crowds for those events you can easily understand where the money is going.

Go will just continue to be more and more of an eccentric activity that elderly folks waste their time with.

Would you also describe any of the following games as an eccentric activity that elderly folks waste their time with?

• Bridge
• Chess
• Xiangqi
• Backgammon
• Poker
• Hearts
• Shogi

All of the above games have been through booms and busts, highs and lows, but have never neither been extinguished nor become confined to eccentric activity hour at the retirement home. Why are you so certain that Go/Weiqi/Baduk deserves a different fate?

The game is growing incrementally in the West, growing hugely in China, holding steady in Korea(*), and perhaps is in gentle decline in Japan(*). Your analysis has no basis.

(*) - my indirect observations, feel free to correct

The poll showed 33.4 percent of the survey participants answered Lee Se-dol's contest against AlphaGo made them take interest in Go, while 52.8 percent said they had positive thoughts on Go after watching the historic man-versus-computer showdown.

More than 22 percent of the polled answered they know how to play Go, which suggests that the South Korean Go population may exceed 9 million based on the 2015 census data. However, only 4.5 percent of women said they know how to play the mind sport.

From http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/news/20 ... 00315.html

Yes all of those activities are played by niche groups now. Poker is inexorably linked to money and has competitions with large purses so it is different, it is also more of a social game than the others listed below.

Go in China is by and far linked with Children. You will be hard pressed to find go being played on a street corner or in parlors as that is relegated to xiangqi and mahjiang. There are go schools but none for adults or even teenagers. While the government backed pro scene is strong right now less and less children are going into the programs due to the unforgivable nature of professional go, this is also seen in Korea and Japan.

The issue is that the players that go would attract are the people going to computer and console gaming. Also I am not talking about people who know the rules of go and play at a very basic level every once in a blue moon but people who view go as an active hobby or even more so. The video gaming industry will only become more seductive in the future while go will always just be go.