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Offline Gomoto
 Post subject: shapes under my radar
Post #1 Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:25 pm 
Gosei

Posts: 1733
Location: Earth
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I used to play 3 of the 4 most popular pro choices in this shape in my games, but the runner-up got overlooked by me up until now.

White to play:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . O . . . . .
$$ . . . X X . O . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . .[/go]
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Offline Gomoto
 Post subject: Re: shapes under my radar
Post #2 Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:43 pm 
Gosei

Posts: 1733
Location: Earth
Liked others: 621
Was liked: 310
I think it is quite easy to spot it in this game due to the location of the shape on the board. (But the move is also a good candidate move in many other less obvious positions.)

Black to play:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . O . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X , X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . O X X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . X O O O O X X . X , O . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O X X X O . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . O . . . O O . X O X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Kobayashi Koichi, 9d - O Meien, 9d, B+5.5 (Komi 6.5)
37th Tengen, Final Preliminary, Group Final, 2010-11-11
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Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: shapes under my radar
Post #3 Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:08 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 10905
Liked others: 3651
Was liked: 3374
Gomoto wrote:
I think it is quite easy to spot it in this game due to the location of the shape on the board. (But the move is also a good candidate move in many other less obvious positions.)

Black to play:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . O . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X , X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . O X X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . X O O O O X X . X , O . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O X X X O . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . O . . . O O . X O X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Kobayashi Koichi, 9d - O Meien, 9d, B+5.5 (Komi 6.5)
37th Tengen, Final Preliminary, Group Final, 2010-11-11


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm59 Checking extension/pincer
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . O . 1 . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X , X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . O X X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . X O O O O X X . X , O . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O X X X O . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . O . . . O O . X O X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


In its commentary Elf prefers :b59: to a by 5%. Even though the ladder works. ;)

Edit: However

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm59 Elf's mainline variation
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . O . 1 . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X , X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . , . . . . . , 3 . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . O X X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . X O O O O X X . X , O . . |
$$ | . X O O . X O X X X O . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . O . . . O O . X O X X . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Elf has Black play there later, even when the ladder does not work.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

This post by Bill Spight was liked by: Gomoto
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Offline xela
 Post subject: Re: shapes under my radar
Post #4 Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:24 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 650
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Liked others: 219
Was liked: 281
Rank: Australian 3 dan
GD Posts: 200
Gomoto wrote:
I used to play 3 of the 4 most popular pro choices in this shape in my games, but the runner-up got overlooked by me up until now.


Sorry, only three moves pop into my mind, including the one you're overlooking. So which move am I overlooking?
White to play:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . c O a . . . .
$$ . . . X X b O . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

This post by xela was liked by: Gomoto
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Offline Uberdude
 Post subject: Re: shapes under my radar
Post #5 Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:26 am 
Judan

Posts: 6727
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 436
Was liked: 3720
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . d . . .
$$ . . . c O a . . . .
$$ . . . X X b O . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . .[/go]


The jump at d makes most sense when it also a useful move with regards to what is going on to the right, and the white attachment stone can then be viewed as a useful forcing move that interferes with black's jumping alongside (2 interesections to the left of d) or peeping at a. e.g. this joseki-ish:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . 6 . . . |
$$ . . . . 5 . . . . . |
$$ , . 3 . . . X . . . |
$$ . 4 2 . 1 . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------+[/go]

This post by Uberdude was liked by 3 people: Bill Spight, Gomoto, xela
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