New josekis

John Fairbairn · #1

The triangled move in the top left first cropped up in the GoGoD Database this year, but was limited to a couple of instances by the same Chinese player, Zhou Zhenyu, who - it could be argued, was taking a weaker opponent lightly. In other words, ignorable.

But I see today it has cropped in the Heisei Panda Match where Mutsuura Yuta has played it (successfully) against no less than Kyo Kagen. Maybe it's been getting traction in internet games.

In one of the games by Zhou, he also played the joseki in the lower right, so we may infer he has a taste for trick moves. But I don't think he invented that one. It goes back at least to Mizokami Tomochika in Japan in 2017.

Bill Spight · #2

John Fairbairn wrote:

The triangled move in the top left first cropped up in the GoGoD Database this year, but was limited to a couple of instances by the same Chinese player, Zhou Zhenyu, who - it could be argued, was taking a weaker opponent lightly. In other words, ignorable.

But I see today it has cropped in the Heisei Panda Match where Mutsuura Yuta has played it (successfully) against no less than Kyo Kagen. Maybe it's been getting traction in internet games.

In one of the games by Zhou, he also played the joseki in the lower right, so we may infer he has a taste for trick moves. But I don't think he invented that one. It goes back at least to Mizokami Tomochika in Japan in 2017.

Both are indeed bot moves. Oh, brave new world!

Edit: BTW, the slide in the bottom right shows up in the Suzuki-Kitani Small Joseki Dictionary, which goes way back. But not as a joseki.

RobertJasiek · #3

The upper left with the black stones shifted one line rightwards I learnt in the early 90s from a joseki book written ca. in the 70s. I have regularly used this kind of kosumi. Its ideas closely resemble those for the shown position of the black stones. The lower right shape has been tried by some of my opponents during the previous decade but it feels like a trick play and is not easily developed by human players in the global context, so they hardly tried it twice.

AloneAgainstAll · #4

I saw upper left joseki first time in game by FineArt (ver A) on FGS. It was 2 stones game (with 7,5 komi), but i dont remember against who, and who won.

Kirby · #5

I seem to recall bottom right pattern in a game with Iyama Yuta from some time back...

Edit: I think it was this game from 2014: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?p=182194#p182194

tchan001 · #6

What are the typical followups to these moves? It seems rather short to be classified as joseki, no?

SoDesuNe · #7

So much for: The second line is the line of defeat.

Bill Spight · #8

tchan001 wrote:

What are the typical followups to these moves? It seems rather short to be classified as joseki, no?

I think what is meant is that the move is a joseki move.

Knotwilg · #9

Quick LZ review with a somewhat realistic opening.

In general I think the idea of the move is to make equivalence of the once space jump through the large knight and the small knight escape. In this set up the former is more important, as it breaks Black's development on that side. So we should explore other set-ups too.

It's related to https://senseis.xmp.net/?TaishaNarabi

[The simple variation|TaishaNarabi]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W [The simple variation|TaishaNarabi] $$ ------------------ $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . O 1 d 3 c . $$ | . . . , . B . b . $$ | . . X a 2 . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . , . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . .[/go]

John Fairbairn · **#10**

It was interesting to me, too, to see that AI thinking has extended also to the 13x13 board.

The above shows the opening of Fujisawa Rina playing Tsuji Hana in the latest 13x13 pro tournament. There was a 3-3 invasion by White as well later, of course!

Ferran · **#11**

John Fairbairn wrote:

The above shows the opening of Fujisawa Rina playing Tsuji Hana in the latest 13x13 pro tournament. There was a 3-3 invasion by White as well later, of course!

Would you happen to know if there's a website for the tournament, with videos and/or sgf's?

[Sorry; keyboard/trigger happy; continuing]

Last I knew, there was a crowdfunding for a 13x13 pro event sometime mid-decade, but there were only two such events, then it disappeared. This one's official? I even seem to recall there's a 13x13 association... a rather small one [*].

Thank you.

[*] Still bigger than the Chu-shogi one, though, I believe.

RobertJasiek · **#12**

John Fairbairn wrote:

AI thinking has extended also to the 13x13 board.

How does your example show AI thinking? In 13x13 tournaments of the European Go Congress, the moves have been common. In particular, early corner stone attachments have been ordinary on 13x13 among amateur high dans for many years before neural net AIs. AI has merely caught up in this respect on the 13x13. (On 19x19, AI has introduced a higher frequency of attachments than was usual among human players.)

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