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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby: Four Stones Revisited
Post #121 Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:46 pm 
Honinbo

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KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
I wonder if there is a way I can still use M4... Or maybe I should continue to attack his stones now... Or maybe I should deal with the bottom left more...

Hmm, I'm not so sure right now.

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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby: Four Stones Revisited
Post #122 Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:49 pm 
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Was liked: 1712
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm71 Has captured: B - 2, W - 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Well, this is sente, I think... So maybe after I play this, I will have a better idea of what to do next.

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby: Four Stones Revisited
Post #123 Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:50 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm81 Has captured: B - 2, W - 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby: Four Stones Revisited
Post #124 Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:51 pm 
Honinbo

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Was liked: 1712
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm81 Has captured: B - 2, W - 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . O X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby: Four Stones Revisited
Post #125 Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:52 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm81 Has captured: B - 2, W - 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
edit:
kirby played sente. but many times sente is bad sente. i am thinking this is the case. it activated aji at 'a' which i was not comfortable to play before.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm81 Has captured: B - 2, W - 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . a O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

edit 2:
this is my sente but i would never play this move because it hurts me more than few points in the corner.
then why is he playing a move that i would never play? see my point?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm81 Has captured: B - 2, W - 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . 4 . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 1 2 . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson


Last edited by Magicwand on Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.
This post by Magicwand was liked by 2 people: daniel_the_smith, illluck
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby: Four Stones Revisited
Post #126 Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:55 pm 
Honinbo

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KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Seems that there has to be something tricky to do with M4... But what is it?

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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby: Four Stones Revisited
Post #127 Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:05 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 9552
Liked others: 1602
Was liked: 1712
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm81 Has captured: B - 2, W - 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . 4 . X . O . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I guess I will just expand out from here for now...

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby: Four Stones Revisited
Post #128 Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:19 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm81 Has captured: B - 2, W - 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . X . X . O . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

since he played last move he must connect or last move have no merit.

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The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Offline Jedo
 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby: Four Stones Revisited
Post #129 Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:43 pm 
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Maybe this shows my weakness in handicap games, but I would have definitely played some thing like F6 instead of Kirby's last move both two cut off the two white stones and make me feel safer about the eyeless black stones. Is it wrong to worry about this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm81 Has captured: B - 2, W - 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 6 X X . . . . . . . . 4 . X . O . . . |
$$ | . O X X . 7 . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Sure, there's the push and cut at D8, but doesn't that get dangerous for black?

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Offline CSamurai
 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby: Four Stones Revisited
Post #130 Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:00 pm 
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Jedo wrote:
Maybe this shows my weakness in handicap games, but I would have definitely played some thing like F6 instead of Kirby's last move both two cut off the two white stones and make me feel safer about the eyeless black stones. Is it wrong to worry about this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm81 Has captured: B - 2, W - 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 6 X X . . . . . . . . 4 . X . O . . . |
$$ | . O X X . 7 . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Sure, there's the push and cut at D8, but doesn't that get dangerous for black?


What does your 86 do for black? Can you think of a better move?
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Offline Suji
 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby: Four Stones Revisited
Post #131 Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:41 pm 
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KGS: Sujisan 12 kyu
OGS: Sujisan 13 kyu
CSamurai wrote:
Jedo wrote:
Maybe this shows my weakness in handicap games, but I would have definitely played some thing like F6 instead of Kirby's last move both two cut off the two white stones and make me feel safer about the eyeless black stones. Is it wrong to worry about this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm81 Has captured: B - 2, W - 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 6 X X . . . . . . . . 4 . X . O . . . |
$$ | . O X X . 7 . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Sure, there's the push and cut at D8, but doesn't that get dangerous for black?


What does your 86 do for black? Can you think of a better move?


I think this might be better:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm81 Has captured: B - 2, W - 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . 4 . X . O . . . |
$$ | . O X X . 6 . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Jedo
 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby: Four Stones Revisited
Post #132 Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:22 pm 
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Suji wrote:
I think this might be better:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm81 Has captured: B - 2, W - 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . 4 . X . O . . . |
$$ | . O X X . 6 . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But what about this?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm81 Has captured: B - 2, W - 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 7XX X . . . . . . . . 4 . X . O . . . |
$$ | . O X X . 6 . 8 . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Again, I'm not saying that this is completely disasterous, but why not just play :b6: in the first place instead of :b4: ,because I feel like :b6: has more of an effect on white.

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Offline CSamurai
 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby: Four Stones Revisited
Post #133 Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:36 pm 
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Well, I've been mulling it over and a few thoughts occur to me.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm81 Has captured: B - 2, W - 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 6 X X . . . . . . . . 4 . X . O . . . |
$$ | . O X X . 7 . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . 8 . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

After white 7, black can start a fight at 8. It goes something like..

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Has captured: B - 2, W - 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X . . . . . . . . X . X . O . . . |
$$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X 8 2 1 . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X 6 3 4 5 . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . 9 . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Notice how this damages White's side. Chances are, black can make life in here. If white doesn't cut..

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Has captured: B - 2, W - 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X . . . . . . . . X . X . O . . . |
$$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X 5 2 1 . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X 4 3 6 8 . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O 9 . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black makes easy life, small but definitely alive.

If white plays more cool..

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Has captured: B - 2, W - 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X . . . . . . . . X . X . O . . . |
$$ | . O X X . O . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O 2 . O , O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X 7 4 1 3 . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X 6 5 8 0 . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


10 starts a fight which black can win for 1 and 3.

White is unlikely to play in such a way to force black to make desperation life under their stones.

That's what I think, anyway.

Edit: Also, 86 At your proposed 87 allows my 88 much more in the way of teeth. Which is why I feel that perhaps splitting off the easy to save 3 white stones is not the best use of 86.
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Offline dfan
 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby: Four Stones Revisited
Post #134 Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:01 am 
Gosei

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Doesn't this work if necessary? (Which is not to say that this is necessarily a good sequence strategically.)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm81
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 O 8 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 6 X X . . . . . . . . 4 . X . O . . . |
$$ | . O X X . 7 . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Hummingbird Cyborg
 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby: Four Stones Revisited
Post #135 Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:23 am 
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Am I the only one that thinks that Kirby should have just let mw win the ko fight and made a couple of big moves elsewhere if white filled the ko? And that he lost a ton by letting mw just take that corner. (Even if he is able to use some of the aji to live in there.)
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby: Four Stones Revisited
Post #136 Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:50 am 
Honinbo

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KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm81 Has captured: B - 2, W - 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . X 6 X . O . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Hmm, here we go. I guess this will be a fight.

I thought about not connecting, and playing as follows, but it's just silly:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . X . X . O . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . 1 . . X X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby: Four Stones Revisited
Post #137 Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:59 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
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Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm81 Has captured: B - 2, W - 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 O . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . X X X . O . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
my peep was just a probe that help my middle group in case of attack. now i probe on left side again.
i want to know if he is going to let me connect or separate me and fight.

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby: Four Stones Revisited
Post #138 Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:54 am 
Honinbo

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KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm81 Has captured: B - 2, W - 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | 8 X X . . . . . . . . X X X . O . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I can't really think of a better move... This is nonsense:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Has captured: B - 2, W - 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 1 O O . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . X X X . O . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Jedo
 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby: Four Stones Revisited
Post #139 Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:26 pm 
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I'm glad this is happening, now we can see how good/reasonable our predictions were!

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby: Four Stones Revisited
Post #140 Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:44 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
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Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm81 Has captured: B - 2, W - 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O . O X O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O X X X . . X X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O X . X . . X O X X X . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . X O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O . . X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 9 X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | X X X . . . . . . . . X X X . O . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . O , O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
i know that this look like an overplay. but i have to play an over play sometime. why not now :)

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The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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Board index » L19²GO (Malkovich) » 1-on-1 Malkovich games

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