I had thought about him doing that too, and decided my peep could still be beneficial. Anyway, back to patching what was left behind. Now he'll turn and attack my group, and I'll run. We'll see how it goes.

This is voluntarily giving up the opportunity to attack with this group in favor of defending. And as a defense, it doesn't do much--just one eye. I'm not sure what it would take to convince me this was the right move.

the value of this move actually becomes clear if you consider it as reverse sente. b could play there in sente. Although i have my doubts because if b threatened to cut and w connected, b seems a bit too weak.

but i for myself explained it this way the move being a reverse sente play. why does he not explain it? very sad

Would it really be sente for black? Black is already extra strong at the bottom and the two stones are not cutting stones. As someone pointed earlier, a move around M9/M10 is key and both players have been ignoring it.

hmm true, missed that. you could actually argue about that. but it would kind of stay in contradiction with what white has done here.
he spend one move to save his stone, so i guess it would hurt to give it up now.

but you got a point there. if w run instead of playing his last move,

1. b would never try to cut and gain those 2 stones

2. if b tried, white could have a second move outside and do tremendous damage to black's cutting stones

so.. hm.. difficult. maybe this move is "too solid"

i will make the call
white answering was not a good move.
i have notice laman's style when i played him.
very very slow and careful and never aggresive.

this is a good example of him playing very slow and small move (timid).

Imo when you have to spend 7 stones to secure one eye like that this early, something has gone really wrong...

Yeah, I thought m10 would be the move for white here.

Well, I didn't expect that. I thought he would take a more active approach to attacking my stones.

Anyway, this is another case where I don't really know what is best.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 7 5 6 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O . . 1 . O 8 . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . 9 . 3 2 . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . B B . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O O B . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . O B . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O X O O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X . X X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Something like this feels like it will be hard for me. I don't think it's unthinkable to sacrifice the stones, but to let white attack them on a large scale feels bad to me.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm1 Move #61, B+1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , 1 . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . O X . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . 2 O O X O O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X . X X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This move could be okay too, but it's farther to run to safety and it doesn't feel like it's all that severe or beneficial an attack on white's stones. I'd rather save an attack for later than waste it now.

So, I chose the move I did, not because I think it's amazing or anything, but because I think it's the best way to "make a fist" before doing anything else.

well, rough score estimation showed me that the game is pretty much even, yet i cannot prevent myself from feeling behind. i should work on improving my self-consciousness and stamina (and positional judgment)

my move seeks for safety for my group and limits potential of the black group. i also considered K8, to strengthen my group in sente (expecting black J7) before jumping to L11, but black could just answer with something like L10 and i wouldn't achieve much that way.

black can play sequence b Q11, w R11, b Q10, w R10, pushing down my ogeima extension - i hated that on first sight, so i even considered playing P11 to prevent it. however, when i put the stones at the board, Q11 - Q10 are not really that useful and center is more important now

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm1 Diagram 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . a . . . . . . . e . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . d . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . X X . O . b . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . O X . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O X O O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X . X X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X O X . . |
$$ | . c . . . X . . . f . . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

a + b + c - d - e - f + 6.5 = 21 + 25 + 15 - 25 - 12 - 32 + 6.5 = - 1.5
(my counting is definitely not precise, but i assume similar error for both sides, so the difference shouldn't be much off. and it is surely way better than my instinct)

PS: when i am reluctant to post a move and write only short or no comments, it is usually because i feel bad about the game (no surprise)

At first I was thinking about tenukiing, but I felt the attack white could pull off on my group would profit him too much. So, I then thought about running some more, perhaps at below.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . O X . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O X O O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X . X X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But, when I analyzed it further, it felt like he could pull ahead in the game if I played like that.

Then, I noticed I could cut him directly by playing here. Below are a few variations, all of which seem good for me.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 1 X . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . 3 2 . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 4 O O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . O X . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O X O O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X . X X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

He dies like this.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 2 B . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 O O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . O X . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O X O O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X . X X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Cuts through his stone, making it a bad exchange.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 1 X . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . 6 4 2 . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 5 3 O O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . O X . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O X O O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X . X X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Cuts right through his two stones, making them look bad.

We'll see what he does to avoid these results.

come on, did i mess up even such a simple thing like a two space jump?

i surely don't want to let black divide my stones - or at least i want to take care of both my groups. this should hopefully work in some mad and complicated way...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm1 Diagram 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O 4 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 3 X W . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . 2 1 X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . O X . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O X O O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X . X X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

then i plan to survive with both resulting groups. anyway, the game goes really bad in my opinion, though i don't see any big mistake i did (only some dubious moves). maybe it would be better to take few days off and return with a clear mind - at DGS, it usually helps me. but i don't want to do it because we have no clock here, so it wouldn't be very fair to prolong the game without reason

One move you didn't read and you don't comment. Shame!

Sorry hyperpape . I actually did read this move out a bit, but I only have so much space and energy, that I can't list everything.

Anyway, I considered this move to be automatic. If he were allowed to connect, my last move would have been stupid and pointless. As for what I expect now, I'm thinking it will probably go like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O . . . . O . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O 3 . 4 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 2 X O . . . b . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . a . 1 X X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O . O X . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O X O O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X . X X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I haven't yet read out if at 'a' works. For now, I'll assume it doesn't, because he probably wouldn't have played this way if it does. But I will definitely look at it once he responds. I'd look at it now but I don't really have time. at 'b' is another option as well.

following diagram from the previous move. i finally bought last presents this afternoon, and my mind is calmer and brighter than it was in the morning.

Am I missing something, or is this outcome horrible for white?

e: Apparently not as horrible as I first thought, but I still don't like it