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Offline tj86430
 Post subject: Interesting situation from a recent game
Post #1 Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:47 am 
Gosei

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I just came across this situation:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ -------------------
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . O O X . . |
$$ . O . X X X . |
$$ . . O X X O . |
$$ . X O X O O O |
$$ . X X O O . O |
$$ . O O X O . O |
$$ . . X X O O X |
$$ . . . O X O X |
$$ . . . . X X X |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . X . X . . . |[/go]


Black to play, can he capture?

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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: Interesting situation from a recent game
Post #2 Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:11 am 
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T16, I don't see why not?
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Offline tj86430
 Post subject: Re: Interesting situation from a recent game
Post #3 Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:30 am 
Gosei

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That's what I played. White responded:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ -------------------
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . O O X . . |
$$ . O . X X X 1 |
$$ . . O X X O . |
$$ . X O X O O O |
$$ . X X O O . O |
$$ . O O X O . O |
$$ . . X X O O X |
$$ . . . O X O X |
$$ . . . 2 X X X |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . X . X . . . |[/go]

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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: Interesting situation from a recent game
Post #4 Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:38 am 
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Yes, that's one of the trickier responses, but I think black is fine.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ -------------------
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . O O X . . |
$$ . O . X X X 1 |
$$ . . O X X O . |
$$ . X O X O O O |
$$ . X X O O . O |
$$ . O O X O . O |
$$ . . X X O O X |
$$ . . . O X O X |
$$ . . . 2 X X X |
$$ . . . 3 . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . X . X . . . |[/go]


Edit:

I guess this is the most tricky sequence:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ -------------------
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . 0 . . |
$$ . . O O X . . |
$$ . O 8 X X X 1 |
$$ 9 7 O X X O . |
$$ 6 X O X O O O |
$$ . X X O O . O |
$$ 4 O O X O . O |
$$ . . X X O O X |
$$ . . . O X O X |
$$ . . 5 2 X X X |
$$ . . . 3 . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . X . X . . . |[/go]


Then:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ -------------------
$$ . . . 0 4 2 b |
$$ . . 6 5 O 1 3 |
$$ . . O O X 8 9 |
$$ . O O X X X X |
$$ X X O X X O 7 |
$$ O X O X O O O |
$$ . X X O O a O |
$$ O O O X O c O |
$$ . . X X O O X |
$$ . . . O X O X |
$$ . . X O X X X |
$$ . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . X . X . . . |[/go]


Black one lib ahead, though I admit I probably won't read this out in a normal game.
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Offline Marcus
 Post subject: Re: Interesting situation from a recent game
Post #5 Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:52 am 
Gosei

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I'd say it depends on ladders:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ -------------------
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . O O X . . |
$$ . O . X X X 1 |
$$ . . O X X O . |
$$ . B O X O O O |
$$ . B B O O . O |
$$ . O O B O . O |
$$ . . B B O O X |
$$ . . . O X O X |
$$ . . . . X X X |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . X . X . . . |[/go]


It may be possible for White to use the aji around the marked black stones to make a ladder.

My first thought for White was this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ -------------------
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . O O X . . |
$$ . O . X X X 1 |
$$ . . O X X O . |
$$ . B O X O O O |
$$ . B B O O . O |
$$ . O O B O . O |
$$ . 2 B B O O B |
$$ . . 3 O B O B |
$$ . . a 4 B B B |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . X . X . . . |[/go]


This looks pretty dangerous for Black's T9 group, and White is threatening a good ladder at a.

Obviously, this is just a quick glance.
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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: Interesting situation from a recent game
Post #6 Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:21 pm 
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Marcus's post was the reason why I didn't post diagrams at first - I'm relatively certain I read all resistances by white out, but there were too many diagrams for me to post :p

Q8 is fine for Marcus's variation too - I think the variation I posted was the most difficult resistance by white.
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Offline CSamurai
 Post subject: Re: Interesting situation from a recent game
Post #7 Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:32 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ -------------------
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . O O X . . |
$$ . O . X X X 1 |
$$ . . O X X O . |
$$ . X O X O O O |
$$ . X X O O . O |
$$ . O O X O . O |
$$ . 5 X X O O X |
$$ . 4 . O X O X |
$$ . . . 2 X X X |
$$ . . . 3 6 7 . |
$$ . . . . 8 9 . |
$$ . X . X 0 . . |[/go]



I think.. I think a lot depends on the status of the lower corner?

After 4, white's 2 stones are harder to lean on than in illuck's diagram, and black's 3 liberty group becomes dangerously short. 6 seizes the opportunity to counter attack, but if there's already stones in this corner, it changes a lot about the nature of this problem.
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Offline tj86430
 Post subject: Re: Interesting situation from a recent game
Post #8 Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:59 am 
Gosei

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In the game the lower corner looked like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ -------------------
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . O O X . . |
$$ . O . X X X . |
$$ . . O X X O . |
$$ . X O X O O O |
$$ . X X O O . O |
$$ . O O X O . O |
$$ . . X X O O X |
$$ . . . O X O X |
$$ . . . . X X X |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . X . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . O . X X . . |
$$ . . O O X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------[/go]

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Offline CSamurai
 Post subject: Re: Interesting situation from a recent game
Post #9 Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 9:40 pm 
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Ah, yeah, then white's boned.
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