It is currently Tue May 06, 2025 4:42 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Re: playing fast is wrong
Post #21 Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:24 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 653
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Liked others: 54
Was liked: 216
Shaddy wrote:
The enemy here, I believe, is not fast play (you can read while playing fast, it's just that there's more chances of missing stuff), but failure to read. For every move, read out what will happen, and evaluate at each step - questions like is this sente or gote? is it really? if I sacrifice, can I gain? what other moves could my opponent play? if it's gote, where should I tenuki to? can I live there if I invade? where are my forcing moves? if my opponent doesn't respond to one of them, how do I punish? Don't stop reading during your opponent's moves, either. Just keep reading.


Guys you need to look at the games. This latest game that he played "slower" he averaged 3.4 seconds per move.

balmung what the heck dude.

Joaz was nice enough to review the actual strategy of the games. But the 2nd game balmung only used a total of 2 minutes and 58 seconds.

LESS THAN THREE MINUTES FOR A GAME OF GO.

This is making me sick I have to stop now.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: playing fast is wrong
Post #22 Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:49 pm 
Lives in sente

Posts: 706
Liked others: 252
Was liked: 251
GD Posts: 846
balmung wrote:
I hate playing fast and from the adrenaline rush I get from playing ranked games, and I haven't found away to break because now it's more than a habit, playing fast when there is no need to is now close to an addiction.


Now we're talking. Do you actually feel compelled to play many games in a row like that? I think we all want to feel good while playing go, otherwise, why bother? When we find a way to feel good, there's something in the brain that makes us want to return to that place. Challenges feel good. One way you can challenge yourself of course is to play faster---the anticipation of finding out what will happen next is hard to resist---and that can be a hard habit to break. Probably it is necessary to seek a different kind of challenge while playing---one that will interfere with playing fast. Maybe deliberately try a new opening that you have to think about more because you haven't hard-coded any stock responses for it yet. Then the challenge can be: can I win this way? Will my opponent play a move I didn't consider? Still maybe some adrenaline, but probably better for your game than seeking the rush in just speed alone. Just find a substitute rush is all I'm suggesting.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: playing fast is wrong
Post #23 Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:53 pm 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 2116
Location: Silicon Valley
Liked others: 152
Was liked: 330
Rank: 2d AGA
GD Posts: 1193
KGS: lavalamp
Tygem: imapenguin
IGS: lavalamp
OGS: daniel_the_smith
Get a big glass jug and a stack of nickels (dime, quarters, whatever). Use a stopwatch for every move. Every time you play a move and took less than 15 seconds, deposit a nickel in the jug. (Deposit three nickels each time you forget to use the stopwatch).

Give the jug to a charity with a cause you despise.

_________________
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
--
My (sadly neglected, but not forgotten) project: http://dailyjoseki.com


This post by daniel_the_smith was liked by 2 people: gaius, snorri
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: playing fast is wrong
Post #24 Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:14 pm 
Lives in sente

Posts: 706
Liked others: 252
Was liked: 251
GD Posts: 846
daniel_the_smith wrote:
Get a big glass jug and a stack of nickels (dime, quarters, whatever). Use a stopwatch for every move. Every time you play a move and took less than 15 seconds, deposit a nickel in the jug. (Deposit three nickels each time you forget to use the stopwatch).

Give the jug to a charity with a cause you despise.


I like everything except for the actual stopwatch, which I think would be distracting. Just counting breaths should be accurate enough. And if you start breathing 5 times as fast, you'll probably just pass out, so the habit will correct itself that way.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: playing fast is wrong
Post #25 Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:36 pm 
Tengen

Posts: 4382
Location: Caldas da Rainha, Portugal
Liked others: 499
Was liked: 733
Rank: AGA 3k
GD Posts: 65
OGS: Hyperpape 4k
They say to sit on your hands if you play too fast. And they're right--it's a good habit and one that I've often used. :)

If mental exercises such as reading two alternate moves don't work, I'd really recommend some kind of mechanical activity to slow you down.

_________________
Occupy Babel!

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: playing fast is wrong
Post #26 Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:19 pm 
Dies in gote
User avatar

Posts: 20
Liked others: 7
Was liked: 0
Rank: KGS 5 kyu
KGS: whitelotus
Did you feel that you needed to play fast because your opponent was playing fast? In a game I played yesterday, after I was thinking of what move to play for 30 seconds my opponent typed "....", and that irritated me for the entire game. It made me want to win badly, sure, but I wasn't thinking clearly, or reading out what the best move was for the rest of the game. I even played an atari from the wrong side that I felt should have cost me the game (I missed out on killing a large group, or at least getting a better result in the corner). Sure, I won, but I still think I could have done better if I hadn't let one thing my opponent had done dictate how I played for the rest of the game. You could always try flipping your mouse upside down between moves, so that you can't just click instantly. It should slow you down by at least a second or two!

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: playing fast is wrong
Post #27 Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:36 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
whitelotus7 wrote:
Did you feel that you needed to play fast because your opponent was playing fast? In a game I played yesterday, after I was thinking of what move to play for 30 seconds my opponent typed "....", and that irritated me for the entire game. It made me want to win badly, sure, but I wasn't thinking clearly, or reading out what the best move was for the rest of the game. I even played an atari from the wrong side that I felt should have cost me the game (I missed out on killing a large group, or at least getting a better result in the corner). Sure, I won, but I still think I could have done better if I hadn't let one thing my opponent had done dictate how I played for the rest of the game. You could always try flipping your mouse upside down between moves, so that you can't just click instantly. It should slow you down by at least a second or two!


I'd respond "...---..."

If people are annoying, splash some humour into their faces and enjoy the fact that you playing the game legitimately causes them so much distress. It's basically a sign that they are already losing the psychological battle - embrace that, it's them that needs to learn to cope, not you :)


This post by topazg was liked by: whitelotus7
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: playing fast is wrong
Post #28 Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:25 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 924
Location: Pittsburgh
Liked others: 45
Was liked: 103
Rank: lazy
KGS: redundant/silchas
Tygem: redundant
Wbaduk: redundant
DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
whitelotus7 wrote:
In a game I played yesterday, after I was thinking of what move to play for 30 seconds my opponent typed "...."


It is possible that your opponent sometimes gets bad lag, and was just checking the connection. I've done this on occasion.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: playing fast is wrong
Post #29 Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:41 pm 
Oza
User avatar

Posts: 2659
Liked others: 310
Was liked: 631
Rank: kgs 6k
whitelotus7 wrote:
In a game I played yesterday, after I was thinking of what move to play for 30 seconds my opponent typed "....", and that irritated me for the entire game.


I wouldn't take it personally! Sometimes I'll type "." or ".." because I think I'm timing out.

Speaking of lag: ninja'ed.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: playing fast is wrong
Post #30 Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 6:49 pm 
Dies in gote
User avatar

Posts: 20
Liked others: 7
Was liked: 0
Rank: KGS 5 kyu
KGS: whitelotus
Thanks guys, I never thought about that. I haven't had anyone disconnect yet, so I thought he was just being impatient.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: playing fast is wrong
Post #31 Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:43 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 844
Liked others: 180
Was liked: 151
Rank: 3d
GD Posts: 422
KGS: komi
One dot is fine, I sometimes use one dot to check if my connection is up. But three dots? That says impatience to me.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: playing fast is wrong
Post #32 Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:36 am 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 324
Location: Dresden
Liked others: 26
Was liked: 22
Rank: KGS 7 kyu
KGS: Mnemonic, dude13
If my opponent takes a long time I start to read. Mostly because I'm afraid I missed something crucial. Only when I'm confident that I haven't missed something AND I have waited an additional 20 seconds I'll type "are you still there?" The most likely thing is that you've misread and your opponent is trying to punish you, the second most likely thin is that one of you timed out. If your opponent really types "..." it shows he is impatient and you will win easily :D

_________________
While I was teaching the game to a friend of mine, my mother from the other room:
"Cutting? Killing? Poking out eyes? What the hell are you playing?"

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: playing fast is wrong
Post #33 Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:59 am 
Dies with sente

Posts: 92
Liked others: 48
Was liked: 6
I see "play too fast" not as the problem, but a symptom of an underlying problem: lack of discipline to think about moves. People have mentioned many methods to slow down play (and I've used a couple myself). For me, its not about whether I play a move in 2 seconds or 10 minutes. But if I don't think about what I'm doing, then I'm dooming myself and not playing to my full potential (which is ultimately what I want to do).

As another method to think more about moves: I try to *heavily* prioritize my ability to tenuki. It forces me to 1) find a valuable place I want to play elsewhere, 2) forces me to evaluate if the local position is safe for me to place elsewhere, and 3) avoid slow moves at all costs. This has a nice side effect of improving my reading too. Of course, sometimes I end up too thin, but there is a learning opportunity there too :)


This post by phrax was liked by 2 people: Akura, daal
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group