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Post #41 Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:13 am 
Honinbo
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Spoiler. EDIT: Unhidden after :w27:.
topazg wrote:
I am very happy playing the crosscut if Black tries to hane.
The fact "a" becomes a wedge rather than a straight atari makes it harder for Black to fight as he has liberty issues.
After :b4: it is not easy for W to find a good reply --
it is W who has liberty problems, not B; the local fight is good for B.
B will likely profit locally at this corner, or get sente to play (b), or both:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 3 a O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . 1 X . . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Last edited by EdLee on Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:18 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post #42 Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:24 am 
Honinbo
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Spoiler. EDIT: Unhidden after :w27:.
topazg wrote:
I can establish a base on the left, and Black has the marked weak stone to aim at as well.
Again, :bc: is not weak at all. In fact, W has four weak groups :wt: :
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . Q . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . Q X . . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . Q . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . Q . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Last edited by EdLee on Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: 99. topazg vs sevis
Post #43 Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:38 am 
Tengen
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KGS: topazg
UNHIDDEN:

Actually, the more I look at it, the more I don't think Black can tolerate White taking the corner in sente, so the hane looks much more likely. So, some crosscut ideas:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm18 Complicated corner
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 9 1 2 8 O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . 6 O X 4 . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm18 Base on the side
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 1 2 9 O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . 8 O X 3 . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm18 Secure corner
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 6 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 2 5 O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . 4 O X . . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm18 Black's corner is dead?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 1 2 6 O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . 4 O X . . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 7 . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm18 Corner / top trade
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 7 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 1 2 5 O . . b . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . 4 O X 8 . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . a . 9 . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


@ED: Wow, you're contributing a lot on this one :)

Presumably they are spoilers from me too ?

EDIT:

I just realised I didn't add any variations on Black playing an atari instead of extending, but I've thrown way too many variations in already, and I'm sure Ed's thrown in even more. I'll stop now until we get out of one of my posted variations!

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 Post subject: Re: 99. topazg vs sevis
Post #44 Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 4:54 am 
Dies in gote

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From a humble not-really-15k:

The comments on this game are really nice. Both because many comments are really of the kind "strategy, how I am thinking ", not only of the local-variation-searching-for-a-good-result kind, and because for now the variations are more ore less easy and I can actually follow the reasoning in the stones, too.

So... thanks to everybody, players and contributors.

I really think after some time I'll print out the whole thing and use it as a :study: study guide.

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Post #45 Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:50 am 
Honinbo
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topazg wrote:
Presumably they are spoilers from me too ?
Yes. :mrgreen:
Spoiler. EDIT: Unhidden after :w27:.
topazg wrote:
Actually, the more I look at it, the more I don't think Black can tolerate White taking the corner in sente, so the hane looks much more likely.
Very wishful thinking on W's part. :)
In topazg's 3rd variation, W gets the corner in GOTE, with a broken shape for W, and B gets :b9: :
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 6 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 2 5 O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . 4 O X . . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
But B can do even better -- B can get a big corner in sente, because :wt: is not alive:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 8 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 1 2 7 O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . 4 Q X . . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Last edited by EdLee on Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:20 am, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: 99. topazg vs sevis
Post #46 Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:10 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
UNHIDDEN:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm16 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 4 . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . 2 X . . . 1 . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Hmmm, this :b20: is interesting too..

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 Post subject: Re: 99. topazg vs sevis
Post #47 Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:16 am 
Lives with ko
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Rank: KGS 6 kyu
KGS: Sevis
Eek, spoilers everywhere.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm16 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . 2 X . . . 1 . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Very unsure as to what to do at the moment. All of the following look okay:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm16 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . b c . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . 2 X . . . 1 . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . a . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think b and c are going to end up with white getting a base on the left. This, however, looks good:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm16 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 8 5 4 9 O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . 6 2 X . . . 1 . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . 7 3 . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


cont...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm25 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . O O X 2 . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . X X . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Or:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm16 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 9 6 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 5 8 O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . 2 X . . . 1 . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This one looks silly, but still possible if it hadn't been a Malkovich game, as every move follows somewhat logically from previous moves... Still leaves the left very weak, though, and gote.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm16 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 8 O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . 4 2 X 7 . . 1 . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . 5 3 . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Not sure about this one... Hm.

In all cases, 16 doesn't look misplaced, and I'm happy about that.

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Post #48 Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:21 am 
Honinbo
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Spoiler. EDIT: Unhidden after :w27:.
topazg wrote:
Hmmm, this :b20: is interesting too..
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm16
$$ ---------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . 5 . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 3 4 . O . . . .
$$ | . . 2 X . . . 1 . ,
$$ | . . . . . X . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . . ,[/go]
Not so good for B, as B gets a broken shape:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . 5 . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 3 4 . O . . . .
$$ | . . 2 X 6 . . 1 . ,
$$ | . . . 7 8 X . . . .
$$ | . . . 9 0 . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . . ,[/go]


Last edited by EdLee on Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: 99. topazg vs sevis
Post #49 Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:23 am 
Lives in gote

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Sevis wrote:
Eek, spoilers everywhere.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm16 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . 2 X . . . 1 . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Very unsure as to what to do at the moment. All of the following look okay:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm16 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . b c . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . 2 X . . . 1 . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . a . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think b and c are going to end up with white getting a base on the left. This, however, looks good:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm16 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 8 5 4 9 O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . 6 2 X . . . 1 . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . 7 3 . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


cont...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm25 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . O O X 2 . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . X X . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Or:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm16 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 9 6 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 5 8 O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . 2 X . . . 1 . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This one looks silly, but still possible if it hadn't been a Malkovich game, as every move follows somewhat logically from previous moves... Still leaves the left very weak, though, and gote.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm16 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 8 O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . 4 2 X 7 . . 1 . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . 5 3 . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Not sure about this one... Hm.

In all cases, 16 doesn't look misplaced, and I'm happy about that.


Minor comment on one of sevis' suggested sequences. I can't remember who is allowed to look ;) :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm16 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . x . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . 4 2 X . . . 1 . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . 5 3 . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


At this point, the logic breaks. If your opponen wants to play on the second line, I'd be surprised if you want to roll around there with him.

x seems better - without even reading, I want to split white apart. There may be a playable sequence following this diagram's ideas, but fixing white's weaknesses for him in sente seems bad.

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 Post subject: Re: 99. topazg vs sevis
Post #50 Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:28 am 
Lives with ko
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KGS: Sevis
amnal wrote:
Minor comment on one of sevis' suggested sequences. I can't remember who is allowed to look ;) :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm16 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . x . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . 4 2 X . . . 1 . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . 5 3 . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


At this point, the logic breaks. If your opponen wants to play on the second line, I'd be surprised if you want to roll around there with him.

x seems better.


Hm, wouldn't that result in this, though?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm16 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 5 . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . 4 2 X . . . 1 . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . 6 3 . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . 8 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm24 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 X . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . O X . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Hm, indeed, this looks quite good for black, thank you.

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 Post subject: Re: 99. topazg vs sevis
Post #51 Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:37 am 
Tengen
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm16 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . 2 X . . . 1 . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'd read this a little, but I'm already happy taking the corner in sente, so both of these are fine for me I think:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm16 Connect on top, Black stays thin
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 6 . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . 2 X . . . 1 . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . 5 3 . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm16 White takes the corner instead
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 5 . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . 2 X . . . 1 . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . 6 3 . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . 8 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I wanted to counter-hane, but I'm not sure that's wise:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm19 Black seals in good shape
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 1 4 O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . 3 O X . . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . 9 X . 8 X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black's shape is kind of awesome here. It resembles one of my previous sequences from the crosscut:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm19 White's corner is secure
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 1 4 O . . . b . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . 3 O X . . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Except here White's shape is happier, Black's is less happy, and "a" is White's privilege as it is likely to be more sente for White than Black, and White "b" has more aji.

So, I'll take the corner, happy that Black's two knight's moves below are not working very efficiently:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm23 Expected continuation
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X 8 O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . B . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . 1 X . . B . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . x x x . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . x x x . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . x x x . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . x x x . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Then I'm taking :b31: as hampering Black's influence in the "x" area is quite important, as well as the pressure this exerts on the corner. I didn't want to commit to this any earlier, because Black's ability to push through and separate was in some way hindered by the potential of White to attack the left stone:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm19 Black's stone starts to worry
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 2 . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 5 . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 4 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O 7 . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Post #52 Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:40 am 
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Spoiler. EDIT: Unhidden after :w27:.
Sevis wrote:
In all cases, 16 doesn't look misplaced, and I'm happy about that.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm16
$$ ---------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 9 6 7 . . . . .
$$ | . . 4 5 8 O . . . .
$$ | . . 2 X . . . 1 . ,
$$ | . . 3 . . X . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . . ,
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .[/go]
Nope -- W gets the corner in sente, and both :bc: are misplaced:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 7 5 6 . . . . .
$$ | . . O X 8 O . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . B . ,
$$ | . 1 X . . B . . . .
$$ | . 3 2 . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . . ,
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .[/go]


Last edited by EdLee on Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: 99. topazg vs sevis
Post #53 Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:31 am 
Tengen
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KGS: topazg
@Sevis: I've gone through changing some of my Spoiler tags to UNHIDDEN. Feel free to look at those :)

@Ed: Can I look at any of yours yet? :P

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Post #54 Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:49 am 
Lives with ko
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Rank: KGS 6 kyu
KGS: Sevis
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm16 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . 5 2 X . . . 1 . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Hm, I hadn't thought about white ignoring a play at D17. I expect this to play out as follows, although I would expect white to have some kind of cunning plan to counter it...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm16 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 4 8 . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . 5 2 X 9 . . 1 . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . 7 3 . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White's shape doesn't look good at all here, at least to me. If white does not play B17, I'll be able to play it in sente.

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Post #55 Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:58 am 
Tengen
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KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm16 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 6 . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . 5 2 X . . . 1 . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Actually, I think this could well be better for Black than letting me have the corner. The hane feels a bit like a mistake, no need to make the extra cutting point.


Spoiler:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm16 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 0 4 6 . O . . 9 . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . 5 2 X 7 . . 1 . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Post #56 Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 4:00 pm 
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topazg wrote:
@Ed: Can I look at any of yours yet? :P
Not yet; I'll unhide when it's time. :batman:

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 Post subject: Re: 99. topazg vs sevis
Post #57 Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 4:34 pm 
Lives with ko
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Rank: KGS 6 kyu
KGS: Sevis
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm16 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 6 . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . 5 2 X 7 . . 1 . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White would not play a move that is not beneficial... Thus B17 would not worry white all too much. However, playing here will probably make white want to respond. In any case, I have the left, and a white play here would be a lot of trouble indeed.

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 Post subject: Re: 99. topazg vs sevis
Post #58 Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 4:36 pm 
Tengen
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KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 1 . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . X O X 2 . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Post #59 Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:58 pm 
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Spoiler. EDIT: Unhidden after :w27:.
B has sente!
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . X O X X . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Last edited by EdLee on Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: 99. topazg vs sevis
Post #60 Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:27 am 
Lives with ko
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KGS: Sevis
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm24 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . X O X X . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Time to go on the offensive, I think. Thoughts may come later, so far, this is simply the move that feels most right.

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