It is currently Fri May 02, 2025 7:05 am

View unanswered posts | View active topics View unread posts | View new posts | View your posts


Board index » Improve Your Game » Study Group

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]



Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 1
  [ 15 posts ] 
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Author Message
Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Late valentine
Post #1 Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:02 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 10905
Liked others: 3651
Was liked: 3374
One of my little darlin's :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play and win
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | . O X . X O O |
$$ | O X X . X . . |
$$ | O X . X . X . |
$$ | O X X . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


No komi.

Enjoy!

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

This post by Bill Spight was liked by 4 people: Chew Terr, Dusk Eagle, emeraldemon, gaius
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline jts
 Post subject: Re: Late valentine
Post #2 Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:38 pm 
Oza
User avatar

Posts: 2659
Liked others: 310
Was liked: 631
Rank: kgs 6k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Variation 1a
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | . O X 5 X O O |
$$ | O X X 6 X 3 4 |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | . 8 . . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]

:w7: retakes, :w9: fills, -1

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Variation 1b
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | 9 O X 5 X O O |
$$ | O X X 0 X 3 4 |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | . 7 8 . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


:b6: fills, :w11: fills, -1

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Variation 2a
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | . O X 5 X O O |
$$ | O X X . X 2 3 |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 4 |
$$ | . 6 . . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


-1

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Variation 2b
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | 7 O X 4 X O O |
$$ | O X X . X 2 3 |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 5 |
$$ | . 8 . . . 6 . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


-2
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline Jordus
 Post subject: Re: Late valentine
Post #3 Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:40 pm 
Site Admin
User avatar

Posts: 1125
Location: Allegan, MI, USA
Liked others: 18
Was liked: 121
Rank: KGS 9k
Universal go server handle: Jordus
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play and win
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | 9 O X 7 X O O |
$$ | O X X . X . 3 |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | 4 5 6 . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]

:b8: @ :b4: and :b10: @ :w5:


1 captured each. White wins by 2...

*edit*... doesn't work if black plays :b4: at :w7: first.... in that case a ko at :w3: would be more in whites favor... but I am not sure black would play into the ko....

*edit*
I take that back... :b4: at :w7: first leaves white winning plus 1?

_________________
I'm thinking...
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: Late valentine
Post #4 Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:45 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
so simple but tricky.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play and win
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | . O X 3 X O O |
$$ | O X X 4 X . 5 |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | . 6 . . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play and win
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | 9 O X 3 X O O |
$$ | O X X 6 X 5 4 |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | . 7 8 . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: Late valentine
Post #5 Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:51 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 10905
Liked others: 3651
Was liked: 3374
Magicwand wrote:
so simple but tricky.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play and win
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | . O X 3 X O O |
$$ | O X X 4 X . 5 |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | . 6 . . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play and win
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | 9 O X 3 X O O |
$$ | O X X 6 X 5 4 |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | . 7 8 . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


That's how I like 'em. :)

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline Chew Terr
 Post subject: Re: Late valentine
Post #6 Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:52 pm 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 2060
Location: Texas
Liked others: 546
Was liked: 173
Rank: KGS 3k
GD Posts: 264
KGS: Chew
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play and win
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | 9 O X 3 X O O |
$$ | O X X 7 X 5 4 |
$$ | O X . X 8 X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | . 6 . . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]

10 at 1
Unless I'm wrong, this is 9-8, white's favor.

_________________
Someday I want to be strong enough to earn KGS[-].
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: Late valentine
Post #7 Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:56 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 10905
Liked others: 3651
Was liked: 3374
jts wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Variation 1a
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | . O X 5 X O O |
$$ | O X X 6 X 3 4 |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | . 8 . . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]

:w7: retakes, :w9: fills, -1

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Variation 1b
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | 9 O X 5 X O O |
$$ | O X X 0 X 3 4 |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | . 7 8 . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


:b6: fills, :w11: fills, -1

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Variation 2a
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | . O X 5 X O O |
$$ | O X X . X 2 3 |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 4 |
$$ | . 6 . . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


-1

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Variation 2b
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | 7 O X 4 X O O |
$$ | O X X . X 2 3 |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 5 |
$$ | . 8 . . . 6 . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


-2


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | . O X 4 X O O |
$$ | O X X . X 3 . |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: Late valentine
Post #8 Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:59 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 10905
Liked others: 3651
Was liked: 3374
Chew Terr wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play and win
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | 9 O X 3 X O O |
$$ | O X X 7 X 5 4 |
$$ | O X . X 8 X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | . 6 . . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]

10 at 1
Unless I'm wrong, this is 9-8, white's favor.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play and win
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | . O X 3 X O O |
$$ | O X X 6 X 5 4 |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

This post by Bill Spight was liked by: Chew Terr
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: Late valentine
Post #9 Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:02 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 10905
Liked others: 3651
Was liked: 3374
Jordus wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play and win
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | 9 O X 7 X O O |
$$ | O X X . X . 3 |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | 4 5 6 . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]

:b8: @ :b4: and :b10: @ :w5:


1 captured each. White wins by 2...

*edit*... doesn't work if black plays :b4: at :w7: first.... in that case a ko at :w3: would be more in whites favor... but I am not sure black would play into the ko....

*edit*
I take that back... :b4: at :w7: first leaves white winning plus 1?


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play and win
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | . O X 4 X O O |
$$ | O X X . X . 3 |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline Chew Terr
 Post subject: Re: Late valentine
Post #10 Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:03 pm 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 2060
Location: Texas
Liked others: 546
Was liked: 173
Rank: KGS 3k
GD Posts: 264
KGS: Chew
Bill Spight wrote:
Chew Terr wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play and win
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | 9 O X 3 X O O |
$$ | O X X 7 X 5 4 |
$$ | O X . X 8 X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | . 6 . . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]

10 at 1
Unless I'm wrong, this is 9-8, white's favor.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play and win
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | . O X 3 X O O |
$$ | O X X 6 X 5 4 |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play and win
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | 9 O X 3 X O O |
$$ | O X X 6 X 5 4 |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | 0 7 8 . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]

Ah. Is this it, then? Each player wins one ko, and I think that leaves white one ahead. 10-9, I think?

_________________
Someday I want to be strong enough to earn KGS[-].

This post by Chew Terr was liked by: Bill Spight
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline jts
 Post subject: Re: Late valentine
Post #11 Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:27 pm 
Oza
User avatar

Posts: 2659
Liked others: 310
Was liked: 631
Rank: kgs 6k
Bill Spight wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | . O X 4 X O O |
$$ | O X X . X 3 . |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Ouch!
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | 7 O X 4 X O O |
$$ | O X X . X 3 . |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | . 5 6 . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Second try: -1
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | . O X 3 X O O |
$$ | O X X . X 4 5 |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | . 6 . . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Still -1 ( :b6: and :w7: are miai)
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | 9 O X 3 X O O |
$$ | O X X 6 X 5 4 |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | . 7 8 . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Did I miss anything this time?

This post by jts was liked by: Bill Spight
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline snorri
 Post subject: Re: Late valentine
Post #12 Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:33 pm 
Lives in sente

Posts: 706
Liked others: 252
Was liked: 251
GD Posts: 846
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc W+1
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | 7 O X 3 X O O |
$$ | O X X . X 4 5 |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | . 6 . . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


After :w3:, there seem to be a number of ways black can play that result in W+1 or worse for black. I could show one with more fighting spirit, but what's the point? This is a sad result. I would be happy to see a happier way for black.

This post by snorri was liked by: Bill Spight
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: Late valentine
Post #13 Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:10 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 10905
Liked others: 3651
Was liked: 3374
Simple and tricky, as MagicWand says. :)

Tricky because few people have seen the key combination, which gains, ahem, 7/12 of a point.

Congratulations to the solvers. :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play and win
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | . O X 3 X O O |
$$ | O X X . X . . |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


Usually :w1: is part of a combination with a connection along the edge that gains 1/2 pt. Here it is part of a combination with :w3:, which gains 7/12 of a point. White wins by 1 pt. The rest is miai.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Stubborn resistance
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | 9 O X O X O O |
$$ | O X X 6 X 5 4 |
$$ | O X . X . X W |
$$ | O X X . X X X |
$$ | . 7 8 . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


:b4: offers the most stubborn resistance by capturing a stone. The point of the exercise is that :w5: forces :b6:, so that the combination, :b4: - :b6:, gains only 1/3 pt. Now the combination, :w7: - :w9:, gains 1/3 pt. for White. The players share the two open kos. White still wins by 1 pt.

The original position has an overall count of -5/12 (from Black's point of view). After :w1: - :w3: the count is -1, for a White win.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Failure
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | 7 O X 1 B O O |
$$ | O X X 9 B 2 3 |
$$ | O X . X . X 4 |
$$ | O X X . X X . |
$$ | 8 5 6 . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


:b10: fills the ko.

The right and center look like a miai pair, each of which gains 1/2 pt. However, they interact because of the threat against the :bc: stones in the previous diagram. If White makes the mistake of playing them as miai ( :w1: - :b4:), he loses 1/12 pt., for a count of -1/3. Then each of :w5: - :b8: gains 1/3 pt., so that the count remains -1/3.

Now White has no ko threat, but must fill a dame with :w9:. (Note that :b2: was necessary to prevent :w9: from becoming a ko threat.) Then :b10: fills the ko to gain 1/3 pt. for jigo.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Black to play
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | . O X 1 X O O |
$$ | O X X . X . 4 |
$$ | O X . X . X 2 |
$$ | O X X . X X 3 |
$$ | . 5 . . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]


:b1: gains 7/12, for a count of 1/6. Now the combination, :w2: - :w4:, gains 1/2, for a count of -1/3. Finally, :b5: gains 1/3, for jigo. :)

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline mw42
 Post subject: Re: Late valentine
Post #14 Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:34 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 566
Liked others: 39
Was liked: 59
Rank: 1k
Universal go server handle: mw42
W+1, late to the parade, I know. :cool:

[sgf-full](;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[7]KM[0.00]
GN[]DT[2011-02-24]PC[http://lifein19x19.com/]AW[bb][cb][db][eb][fb][bc][fc][gc][ad][ae][af]AB[cc][ec][bd][cd][ed][be][de][fe][bf][cf][ef][ff]C[Diagram from http://lifein19x19.com/

]PL[W]
(;)
(;W[ge]
;B[gf]
;W[dc]
(;B[gd]
;W[fd]
;B[dd]
;W[bg]
;B[cg]
;W[ac]
;B[ge]
;W[ag]TW[aa][ba][ca][da][ea][fa][ga][ab][gb]TB[ce][ee][df][dg][eg][fg][gg])
(;B[fd]
;W[gd]
;B[ag]
;W[ac]
;B[bg]TW[aa][ba][ca][da][ea][fa][ga][ab][gb]TB[ce][ee][df][cg][dg][eg][fg][gg])))[/sgf-full]

This post by mw42 was liked by: Bill Spight
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline Phelan
 Post subject: Re: Late valentine
Post #15 Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:04 pm 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1449
Liked others: 1562
Was liked: 140
Rank: KGS 6k
GD Posts: 892
Best I can do:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc A tie?
$$ ---------------
$$ | . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O O . |
$$ | 5 O X 4 X O O |
$$ | O X X . X . 3 |
$$ | O X . X . X 1 |
$$ | O X X . X X 2 |
$$ | . 6 . . . . . |
$$ ---------------[/go]

Edit after looking at the answers: Ah. I thought about the kos briefly, but didn't see the winning line.

_________________
a1h1 [1d]: You just need to curse the gods and defend.
Good Go = Shape.
Associação Portuguesa de Go
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 1
  [ 15 posts ] 

Board index » Improve Your Game » Study Group

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group