Settle first, then I can look after the bottom. I'm pretty happy with this, though it _is_ an interesting idea for Black

I think I'd prefer it as white if black chose to play this way. I think that the other line does a lot to solidify him on and should make that side likely territory while white isn't completely settled yet.

Also, I'm surprised that neither of their analysis has discussed the idea of taking the 3-3 point. In my mind, the topaz has avoided the point because black would get to weaken whichever side they blocked against. Black has been separating white, but at some point, I think that black should consider taking it.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . X O X X . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . a 1 X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Why doesn't White play like this? Or even at a.

I think white will extend to the left, and then I'll have to block on one side or the other... Blocking on the top would solidify that area, but blocking on the bottom would help me secure that... Perhaps B5 would be good, or B4. B4 seems too small, though...

Playing for completely alive here, so I can focus on the bottom properly.

Cutting would result in:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . X O X X . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 4 X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | 9 6 3 . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 7 X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Not cutting would result in the same, but without the stone at 7.

Thus:

I'd like to see a topazg-Edlee Malkovich, with comments by Magicwand. Please?

Thank goodness, I live pretty much everywhere. I Ed was absolutely right that preventing E5 earlier was urgent (even if we didn't agree on some other things ) - the top left was big, but it wasn't big enough to let Black do what he did. However, White's ok with this position now. It's time to decide how to handle the right, lower right, and Black's not yet settled group in the lower left, and then do a count.

Actually, the last move had rather more thought about it than the immediately obvious, so I'll expand slightly.

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[go]$$Bcm40 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . X O X X . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O a . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . 1 . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 2 . X B . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 4 X . O O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 7 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This sequence (at least, ) takes away White's second eye, but the aji against Black's big dragon is relatively large, and I'm concerned there's some trouble left here. As a result, I want the ability to run at "a" whilst making the Black group a target. The bottom White group is too weak to achieve this as things stand.

So, perhaps I should have simply made a second eye?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm39 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . X O X X . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . 1 . . . . X . x . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . x . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O O . 2 , x . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . x . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . x . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Aiming at "a", this seems to live quite comfortably, but Black attacking those 2 stones in my mind, creates a lot of potential difficulties for me. Even if I manage to live, Black building thickness around the "x" points radiates power towards the right hand side collection of Black stones. In my mind, if Black gets this, he can make me live very happily, and still be hugely favourable. EDIT: Actually, this is one of the reasons I didn't like Ed's direction of play very much in his variations. I think this bottom group is now more urgent than the lower left group (and particularly so in the variation we were discussing where I had a group on the left side). By preventing White's expansion at the bottom, I think Black can either build thickness in sente (to then attack the group in the lower left), or force White out through the gap, giving Black more strength to attack the left hand side with a higher chance of a kill.


So, I want to make sure I can't be easily attacked down here. The fact it gives me some opportunity to counter if Black tries to steal my eyespace makes me happy. If Black seals:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm39 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . X O X X . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O 2 . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . B B . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 . B . O O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'm tempted to play this far out. The idea is to make points on both sides whilst making the marked Black stones relatively ineffective with regards to either territory or outside thickness (though I think Black has a good result on the left side between the top left hoshi and the side hoshi).

Why exactly where I played?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm39 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . X O X X . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 . 1 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I don't like Black's ability to split here. I think my move is already reasonably stretched, and I considered a simple one point jump. I'm also eyeing up giving Black enough of an extension that I can still invade the lower right later:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm39 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . X O X X . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . 2 . . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Yeah, that sounds like it could be very interesting

I'm actually not wanting to take on anything else for some time due to my life about to get a lot more busy. When I get the time to start another one, I'll ask Ed first, as you are the second person to talk to me that wants this matchup to happen

that sounds intresting.
let me know when they start. i will love to comment on a high quality game.

Whilst I wait for my personal life to calm down a bit, perhaps you two could play? magicwand vs EdLee would be really interesting too - you are both some of the most interesting commenter+players on the site

IMO, he is much stronger player than i am.
i probably crumble like a cookie.
perhaps after the game with Sol i will be opened for another serious game.

Hm. So, the left white group is now considered settled... Interesting. I suppose I indeed can't approach it without anything nasty (such as it growing clear eyes) happening. Now to figure out what to do on the right side...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm39 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . X O X X . . X . , . . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . a . . X X . . d . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O O . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . c . . . . 1 . . b . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

All of these look like possible moves:
a -- threatens the top group, so this may be sente, and gives me a little more security in the corner.
b -- stops white from going to the right.
c -- threatens to slide under the bottom group and secure the corner a little. Sente, maybe?
d -- stops the bottom group from growing upwards.

I think strengthening the corner in sente is a good idea, but I'm not sure whether strengthening the white groups that much is worth it. Currently thinking a is best, although it seems like repeating the mistake I made last time.

In any case, needs more thought.