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Offline shapenaji
 Post subject: a Tsumego that cropped up in one of my games
Post #1 Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:40 am 
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hey folks, just had this little fun one, thought I'd share (simplified a bit):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ White to move and kill the marked stones
$$ - - - - - - - - - - - -
$$ | . . . . . . . B O . .
$$ | . . . . X O . B O . .
$$ | . . . . X O B B O . .
$$ | . . . O O B B O O . .
$$ | . . O . . . . O . . .
$$ | . O X . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . .[/go]


(I say just the marked stones because I'm not positive yet that black can't give them up in some inventive way for life in the corner. If you find something, let me know!)

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Offline tj86430
 Post subject: Re: a Tsumego that cropped up in one of my games
Post #2 Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:56 am 
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I'd start with:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ White to move and kill the marked stones
$$ - - - - - - - - - - - -
$$ | . . . . . . . X O . .
$$ | . . W . X O . X O . .
$$ | . . . . X O X X O . .
$$ | . . . O O X X O O . .
$$ | . . O . . . . O . . .
$$ | . O X . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . .[/go]

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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: a Tsumego that cropped up in one of my games
Post #3 Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:01 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W White to move and kill the marked stones
$$ - - - - - - - - - - - -
$$ | . . . . . 1 . B O . .
$$ | . . a . X O . B O . .
$$ | . . b . X O B B O . .
$$ | . . . O O B B O O . .
$$ | . . O . . . . O . . .
$$ | . O X . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . .[/go]


That's my first instinct, as Black "a" doesn't now seem to work. Haven't read out black "b" properly yet.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W White kills everything
$$ - - - - - - - - - - - -
$$ | . . . 6 7 1 . B O . .
$$ | . . 2 3 X O . B O . .
$$ | . . 5 4 X O B B O . .
$$ | . . . O O B B O O . .
$$ | . . O . . . . O . . .
$$ | . O X . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . .[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W This doesn't seem to work ... yet
$$ - - - - - - - - - - - -
$$ | . . . . . 1 . B O . .
$$ | . . 3 . X O . B O . .
$$ | . 5 2 4 X O B B O . .
$$ | . . . O O B B O O . .
$$ | . . O . . . . O . . .
$$ | . O X . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . .[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Got 'em, but can't be good!
$$ - - - - - - - - - - - -
$$ | . . . . 6 O . B O . .
$$ | . . O . X O . B O . .
$$ | . O X X X O B B O . .
$$ | . 2 1 O O B B O O . .
$$ | . 5 O 3 4 . . O . . .
$$ | . O X . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . .[/go]


@TJ:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W White to move and kill the marked stones
$$ - - - - - - - - - - - -
$$ | . . . . . 2 4 B O . .
$$ | . . 1 . X 5 . B O . .
$$ | . . 6 . X . B B O . .
$$ | . . . O O B B O O . .
$$ | . . O . . . . O . . .
$$ | . O X . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . .[/go]


Does this not work for Black?
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Offline shapenaji
 Post subject: Re: a Tsumego that cropped up in one of my games
Post #4 Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:57 pm 
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topazg wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W White to move and kill the marked stones
$$ - - - - - - - - - - - -
$$ | . . . . . 1 . B O . .
$$ | . . a . X O . B O . .
$$ | . . b . X O B B O . .
$$ | . . . O O B B O O . .
$$ | . . O . . . . O . . .
$$ | . O X . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . .[/go]


That's my first instinct, as Black "a" doesn't now seem to work. Haven't read out black "b" properly yet.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W White kills everything
$$ - - - - - - - - - - - -
$$ | . . . 6 7 1 . B O . .
$$ | . . 2 3 X O . B O . .
$$ | . . 5 4 X O B B O . .
$$ | . . . O O B B O O . .
$$ | . . O . . . . O . . .
$$ | . O X . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . .[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W This doesn't seem to work ... yet
$$ - - - - - - - - - - - -
$$ | . . . . . 1 . B O . .
$$ | . . 3 . X O . B O . .
$$ | . 5 2 4 X O B B O . .
$$ | . . . O O B B O O . .
$$ | . . O . . . . O . . .
$$ | . O X . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . .[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Got 'em, but can't be good!
$$ - - - - - - - - - - - -
$$ | . . . . 6 O . B O . .
$$ | . . O . X O . B O . .
$$ | . O X X X O B B O . .
$$ | . 2 1 O O B B O O . .
$$ | . 5 O 3 4 . . O . . .
$$ | . O X . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . .[/go]


@TJ:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W White to move and kill the marked stones
$$ - - - - - - - - - - - -
$$ | . . . . . 2 4 B O . .
$$ | . . 1 . X 5 . B O . .
$$ | . . 6 . X . B B O . .
$$ | . . . O O B B O O . .
$$ | . . O . . . . O . . .
$$ | . O X . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . .[/go]


Does this not work for Black?

To Topaz:
"b" is indeed the interesting variation, AND the one that was played


To TJ:
that variation results in ko...

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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: a Tsumego that cropped up in one of my games
Post #5 Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:20 pm 
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shapenaji wrote:
"b" is indeed the interesting variation, AND the one that was played


Interesting - how far did it get, and where did I go wrong? :D

And, were you White?
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Offline shapenaji
 Post subject: Re: a Tsumego that cropped up in one of my games
Post #6 Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:51 pm 
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topazg wrote:

Interesting - how far did it get, and where did I go wrong? :D

And, were you White?


This is what was played if you're curious, (and yes, I'm white):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ White to move and kill the marked stones
$$ - - - - - - - - - - - -
$$ | . 9 8 . . 2 . B O . .
$$ | . 7 6 5 1 O . B O . .
$$ | . a 3 4 X O B B O . .
$$ | . . . O O B B O O . .
$$ | . . O . . . . O . . .
$$ | . O X . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . .[/go]


and then "a" and the throw in kills, black can't take both an eye in the corner AND prevent the pseudo-seki on the right

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Offline cyclops
 Post subject: Re: a Tsumego that cropped up in one of my games
Post #7 Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:56 pm 
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B3@5 in the diagram above is refuted by a nice tesuji:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc a->b->c->6->10->d->6->e
$$ +---------------------
$$ | c 9 d b 4 O . X O .
$$ | 0 6 3 5 X O . X O .
$$ | a 7 2 1 X O X X O .
$$ | . e 8 O O X X O O ,
$$ | . . O . . . . O . .
$$ | . O X . . O . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X X . . . . . ,
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .[/go]
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