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 Post subject: Re: Malkovich 104 - Joaz vs Chew Terr
Post #121 Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:19 pm 
Tengen
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for obs only:
what he played is probably wrong.
without giving you any other variation, just the thought of letting white play that exchange in sente is not acceptable.
must tenuki and play a or b or something else.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31 Move 31
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . , . . . b . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . a . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . C . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Malkovich 104 - Joaz vs Chew Terr
Post #122 Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:24 pm 
Tengen
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Obs:

I also like :b36: more than Joaz' pick. I'm not sure about :b38:, it's very slow, but it seems kinda thick to me too - as Black's ahead, it feels like a rational play at least. Will be very curious to see whether Chew gets to play his bottom reduction. White needs to up the activity a lot after the result on the left edge IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: Malkovich 104 - Joaz vs Chew Terr
Post #123 Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:23 pm 
Judan
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31 Move 31
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------------------------[/go]


This was a mostly intuitive move for me. If he gets the whole side, I lose. Therefore, my next move has to make a living group over there.

This:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31 Move 31
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------------------------[/go]

...is appalingly submissive, while this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31 Move 31
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . 0 9 . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------------------------[/go]

...gets me too cramped.

So I needed something with elbow room and access to the center. This seems to be the only move that fits.

If he presses me too hard from the top, I'll get strong enough that I may be able to attack his lower group. If he does nothing, or retreats into the corner, I'll play P15, sketching out a large moyo.

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 Post subject: Re: Malkovich 104 - Joaz vs Chew Terr
Post #124 Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:14 am 
Tengen
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Maybe something like this?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm39 Move 39
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . O 7 8 . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . , . . 5 4 . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . 1 2 . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Malkovich 104 - Joaz vs Chew Terr
Post #125 Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:54 am 
Gosei
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KGS: Chew
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31 Move 31
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . 0 . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------------------------[/go]

Really didn't expect this move from my opponent. At this point, the obvious risk is that he would take the corner, but if he does, I think I will get to capture something on the outside, or get enough thickness to let me live. As it stands, I think it might have been better to pressure more from the outside, rather than push me into the top, shrinking his framework. I'm not really attempting to kill the middle right group, but if both of my groups live, I can continue leaning on it to reduce white. This is all kind of tentative, however. I know my opponent is strong enough to throw me for a loop, but this is the game plan.

Side note: this seems like weird shape. I considered P14 also, but I prefer the look of this, after trying to read it a bit.

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 Post subject: Re: Malkovich 104 - Joaz vs Chew Terr
Post #126 Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:07 am 
Honinbo

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What do people think of black o15 vs. o16?

Chew's move might have the benefit of the chance of an easier future black invasion on top, whereas one space higher seems like better shape.

Which is best here?

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 Post subject: Re: Malkovich 104 - Joaz vs Chew Terr
Post #127 Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:13 am 
Tengen
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Kirby wrote:
What do people think of black o15 vs. o16?

Chew's move might have the benefit of the chance of an easier future black invasion on top, whereas one space higher seems like better shape.

Which is best here?

@kirby
o15 is not good.
right now o16 look pretty bad also. it was a good move before white play that shoulder hit.

i think black lost the flow and i have no idea how to fix this situation. may be R13?

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 Post subject: Re: Malkovich 104 - Joaz vs Chew Terr
Post #128 Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:32 am 
Judan
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My move is P9.( on Droid , too hard to do a board )

EDIT: Now back at home with real keyboard.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm41 Move 41
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------------------------[/go]

So many keimas to cut; so little time. :twisted:
This move helps my side group stay alive if the battle in the upper right corner expands too much.

I'm fairly sure that it is sente. I can't imagine him letting me have this:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm41 Move 41
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------------------------[/go]


Assuming that he extends, I can go back up to the top right.
I want to be able to play :w43: with an eventual plan of hacking through at 'a' or 'b', without the cut of :b46:wrecking my plans.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm43
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . a X b 6 . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . . . 5 X . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . 1 . O 2 . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------------------------[/go]


If I have read correctly, :w49: is a net which works because of the marked stone.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . X O 2 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O 3 1 4 . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . 5 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: Malkovich 104 - Joaz vs Chew Terr
Post #129 Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:41 am 
Judan
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Actually, O13 is too slow. I'm now seriously considering this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . , . . . . . X 3 . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . a . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------------------------[/go]


I'd like to play R13 myself, of course, but it is just too slow also. In some variations after 3 above, it is sente to connect underneath.

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 Post subject: Re: Malkovich 104 - Joaz vs Chew Terr
Post #130 Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:15 pm 
Gosei
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KGS: Chew
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm41 Move 41
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------------------------[/go]

I was debating between this and a hane. However, the hane is aggressive for a kill that is by no means assured, whereas this actively threatens to atttack below. If my opponent runs with his weak group, I can happily shoulder-hit the bottom middle (K3) stone for a fairly safe reduction. If my opponent tries to solidify (some of) his weakness below, I can work on closing in his middle group, either on a small scale (with O9 or O13) or on a large scale, by reducing with something like L16. If L16 gave me thickness towards the middle, I could consider chasing the weak group towards the it. That would wreck the middle for white, as well as helping my weaker groups and potentially even killing the white group (unlikely).

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Post #131 Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:41 pm 
Judan
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm41 Move 43
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . , . . . . . X 3 . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------------------------[/go]

Again, where's my bloodbath??

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 Post subject: Re: Malkovich 104 - Joaz vs Chew Terr
Post #132 Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:22 pm 
Lives in sente
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KGS: Str1fe, Midorisuke
Chew Terr wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm41 Move 41
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------------------------[/go]

I was debating between this and a hane. However, the hane is aggressive for a kill that is by no means assured, whereas this actively threatens to atttack below. If my opponent runs with his weak group, I can happily shoulder-hit the bottom middle (K3) stone for a fairly safe reduction. If my opponent tries to solidify (some of) his weakness below, I can work on closing in his middle group, either on a small scale (with O9 or O13) or on a large scale, by reducing with something like L16. If L16 gave me thickness towards the middle, I could consider chasing the weak group towards the it. That would wreck the middle for white, as well as helping my weaker groups and potentially even killing the white group (unlikely).


For Chew after the game.
HANE. Being aggressive is not a bad thing! White's weak here, so putting strong pressure on him is not a bad thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Malkovich 104 - Joaz vs Chew Terr
Post #133 Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:37 am 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm41 Move 43
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . , . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . X . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------------------------[/go]


Shaddy:
Bet you're telling me I should've hane'ed...

I can't let white cut off my stone here. My hope is that, even if he survives in the corner, I get enough strength to attack one side or the other.

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 Post subject: Re: Malkovich 104 - Joaz vs Chew Terr
Post #134 Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:46 pm 
Judan
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Kaya handle: Test
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm41
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . O . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . , . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------------------------[/go]


My previous move at P9 was a probe to see how he felt about his lower right group. ( Not only that, but it gets me just a bit more elbow room regardless of how he replies. )
If he had responded with the more dangerous hane as shown below, I would have played the safe move :w1: up top, gotten a bit more elbow room with :w3:, and then counter haned with :w5:. Then his hane stone is the weakest group locally, and I can easily save my right side group by chasing that stone westward.
The down side of this is that my southern formation gets squashed rather flat. But that is not too big a loss for me because he already has the cap over at F7.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . O . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . X 4 . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . O 3 . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . 9 . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . B O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 5 X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . 6 8 X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------------------------[/go]


Another way of looking at this is that we have been having the following conversation about these moves:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . O . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . , . . . . . X 5 . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . 2 . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------------------------[/go]


Joaz ( plays shoulder hit at Q13 ): "I really, really want my right side group to get out. You can have a big corner, and sente, just let me loosely connect to my friends up top."

Terr: ( play keima at O15 ) "No way. I'm, not going to get trapped in a corner, no matter how big you tell me it is. Besides, I want to attack your right side group."

Joaz ( attaches at P9 ): "I'm still worried about my right side group. I can tolerate a fight below or above, but not both. Chew, how do you feel about your lower right group?"

Chew ( extends ): "I feel like playing conservatively. Slow and steady. I can still lightly threaten your right side group, and prepare for an invasion/reduction of your lower group. And I am not getting locked in."

Joaz ( invades corner ): "Ok, thanks for telling me what is important for you. In return for that information, I'll concede you an easy reduction of my southern group. But now that I know that you are not strongly interested in attacking my right side group from below, I know that I can start a fight in the upper right corner.
I'll make you the offer again: you take the corner - I'll even throw in a free prisoner - and let me connect to my friends up top. If not, well, I may take the corner myself. Where will you get eyes then?

Chew ( hanes outside ): "You can have the corner. I'm going to stay strong and connected. I intend to kill your right side group."

Joaz: ( slides underneath ): I'll make the offer just one more time. You can have the corner, and let me push through at P16 and then P15 to connect to my right side group.

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 Post subject: Re: Malkovich 104 - Joaz vs Chew Terr
Post #135 Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:53 pm 
Gosei
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KGS: Chew
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm41
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . O . O 6 . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . , . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm41
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . O . 5 6 . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . , . . . . 7 X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . X 9 8 X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . . 0 . X . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------------------------[/go]

The cuts here are a bit concerning, but I am safe enough in the corner that I can probably fight it out. If this happens, I have some forcing moves and it'll be a few weak groups fighting, while both of our top groups are safe.

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Post #136 Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:58 pm 
Honinbo
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Chew Terr,
Chew Terr wrote:
the hane is aggressive
It's not that; it's the reading -- if it works, it's not aggressive at all. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Malkovich 104 - Joaz vs Chew Terr
Post #137 Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:01 pm 
Judan
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Kaya handle: Test
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm41
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . , . . . . 7 X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------------------------[/go]

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Post #138 Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:13 pm 
Gosei
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KGS: Chew
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm41
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . , . . . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . X . 8 X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------------------------[/go]

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Post #139 Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:46 pm 
Judan
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I must think about this. I could push through directly, but R18 may be necessary to prevent his eventual N17.

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Post #140 Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:02 pm 
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Chew(After the game):

One of the things that I found helpful when I was at your rank was that while I would see the meaning behind some moves during games, I would often end up being inconsistent when I looked at my games during review.

One of the things I did to get better was to choose moves that made my previous moves good, even if they were questionable before.

For example, Q7 is a questionable move. It may be playing too slowly, even if it forms a solid, strong shape.

However, Joaz's bad move of attaching allows you to change Q7 from a bad move into a good move by playing the hane.

I believe that Joaz hasn't played P9, he would've been in much better shape by just playing R13(where I think you should've played to attack his shape), and then jumping out afterward.

Instead, your nobi is ignoring your previous honte.

Try to consider moves that will make your previous moves good. It'll at least keep you a bit more consistent, something I still find to be a problem.


This post by Violence was liked by 2 people: Chew Terr, topazg
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