i thought about the hane on the other side but that's playing close his strength. Besides there is more space on this side. Now lets see how do i make the best of the stones i have hmmn.

Well, as I expected. On seeing his move, it suddenly occurred to me that the crosscut might be good. But it's beyond my ability to read - some lines I saw looked good enough for me that I almost played it (notably in that all ladders towards the upper-left are working for me), but others looked considerably more hairy. I really have no idea what would happen, so let's stick with the relatively simple (although it will still be tricky for me) line I indicated earlier.

i hate passing sente on.. oh well i was thinking of some creative stuff to do keep it but I'm not that fancy just yet and now is not the time to be trying new moves, if i was black i would love the chance to punish a overplay right about now so i cant give him the pleasure

its up to him now i have been thinking about this 3 stones and i have room to run, but running is not profitable it gives him a chance to enlarge his framework, but i will find some use for them, its on my mind but right now i can just treat them as light,

if i would have played q7 trying use a hanging connection he would just peeped it and if i leave these stones as is he could cross cut and i would have wasted two moves and would have been better off just passing, so i chose the solid connection, be as gentle as a lamb when I'm in the enemies areas of influence

feels submissive and wrong direction.
Another idea -- if W tries to run out (a) direction, B has things like (b) waiting for W:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . 1 . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . b . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

This looks like the most solid move I have - firstly securing my lower-right group and giving it some more eyespace, and also at the expense of his group's. Had he got to slide into S6 or thereabouts I wouldn't be too happy. I guess he'll probably now descend, to separate my groups and later threaten them with monkey jumps - but crucially, it won't give him any eyespace (I think I'll still have enough, especially as I have R2 if absolutely necessary - it shouldn't be though; I also have access to the centre). Then I'll be able to attack properly from the outside (I'm thinking of moves like O10.

He could also start running for the centre now, letting me connect under in gote and being satisfied with a light reduction. If so, I'll think then about whether just connecting is best or if I have some more severe attack - but I won't be unhappy. I really don't think he's going to tenuki...

is very very bad. This cannot be emphasized enough, so here it is again:
is very very bad.
It is very broken shape for B (another nickname is the "toothpaste" shape, obvious from the picture ):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B
$$----------------
$$. . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . . |
$$. . O . O O O . |
$$. . . X X X O . |
$$. X . . . X X . |
$$. . . . . O . . |
$$. . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . X . . . |
$$. . . . , X . . |
$$. . . . O B . . |
$$. . . . @ @ @ . |
$$. . . . . B . . |
$$. . . . X . . . |
$$. . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . X . . . |
$$. . O . . X . . |
$$. . . . O . . . |
$$. . . . . . . . |
$$-----------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm36 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 X 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . X 4 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

36: threatens the eye space on the group in the bottom right
37: is the counter aiming at atari of the stone
38: protect
39: contain

I had a much longer post explaining my move but the computer restarted and i lost it this is pretty much the gist of it though

i thought about some other sequence but i ruled them out because this sequence threatens a very important group for him and i can also take advantage of the stones in that area to keep black in
the corner

I'm not sure if it would be better to play O10 (or thereabouts) first. I prefer this because it helps to secure my own group - but the downside is that white might ignore it and start to run with the 3 stones now. I don't think he will, though, or this move doesn't make a lot of sense. Note that, if he does protect with S8 or S9, I will ignore that to attack from centre. (I'm actually also slightly concerned by the aji of his possible peep at R5, but there's not a lot I can do about that now.)

following the plan in my previous post, I'm actually thinking about
what is his plan so i can best foil it, i still have some left behind moves to make around the whole board so it really depends on what he does with his sente its still mine right now though... i love sente

Well, that surprises me on all counts. I'm no longer concerned about that peep, for one. Not that the situation is yet comfortable for me, but this strikes me as a thankyou move.

Beginners play atari

http://senseis.xmp.net/?BeginnersPlayAtari

this is the end of my planned sequence, now its his sente, his next move will determine where i play,

eh, right now I'm just using my imagination playing out different variations in my head to see what would best fit my board position, so i can have some ideas for later, i have a few thoughts, lets see what happens

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , B . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W W . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Are the marked black stones doing more work than the marked white stones?

I'm surprised by this, although I think it's a good move - it just seems inconsistent with playing S7 in the first place. I'm sure I'm not going to capture the stone though - I have much bigger fish to fry. I'm pretty sure I can cut his knight's jump, but doing so will leave me with a group which may well be at least as weak as his. Much reading is going to be needed

Hmm, I can't answer that, because I don't really know what you mean by "work". If you just mean which stones are more useful, then I guess white's are, because they're separating two groups of mine and robbing me of territory that I had hoped to get. I guess that you're trying to tell me that this was a bad exchange for me, and presumably that I shouldn't have played R9. Which is fair comment, but I really didn't see anything else good to play. I guess I should have reinforced at Q8 or Q9 instead of playing on the left - it just felt a bit slow at that point in the game. I wish I had now though!

was aji keshi and is a big miss. Instead, W should play the tiger's mouth :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W
$$-----------------
$$. . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . . |
$$. . O . O O O . |
$$. . . X X X O . |
$$. X . . . X X . |
$$. . . . . O . . |
$$. . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . X . . . |
$$. . . . , X . . |
$$. . . . O X 1 . |
$$. . . . O O . . |
$$. . . . . X O . |
$$. . . . X . X . |
$$. . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . X . . . |
$$. . O . . X . . |
$$. . . . O . . . |
$$. . . . . . . . |
$$-----------------[/go]

Both players miss the meaning and significance of this very broken shape for B.
Now B can simply capture :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B
$$-----------------
$$. . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . . |
$$. . O . O O O . |
$$. . . X X X O . |
$$. X . . . X X . |
$$. . . . . O . . |
$$. . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . X . . . |
$$. . . . , X . . |
$$. . . . O X . . |
$$. . . . O O 1 . |
$$. . . . O X W . |
$$. . O . X X X . |
$$. . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . X . . . |
$$. . O . . X . . |
$$. . . . O . . . |
$$. . . . . . . . |
$$-----------------[/go]

OK, I suspect this looks a little strange at first glance - and I know from the comments addressed to me so far that many of you observers are already shaking your heads at my play so far, and doubtless will do so again over this move. So let me try to explain how I arrived at it.

The move he made looks to me like an attempt to connect his four stones to the living group below. Since my aim is to make some kind of profit by attacking them, I can't let that happen, at least not without a struggle. For example, if I play the move at O10 which I was considering before his previous few moves, he can just connect at either P6 or P7, and it's hard to see what further attack I have, while my one stone at O10 isn't doing very much for me on its own.

Indeed, I'm no longer convinced that this would have been the correct direction to play in any case. I must confess, I have problems with a lot of the proverbs about go strategy, which make some kind of sense when you see them explained, but which always seem (to me) to be hard to apply successfully in real game situations. Anyway, by playing from the top, I seem to be in danger of perpetrating the classic beginner error of trying to make territory from my thickness in the upper right. And, when chasing an opponents' group, it's usually considered best to chase them towards one's strength, not away from it. Broadly speaking, I am strong at the top, while he is strong at the bottom - so forcing him upwards in theory should be correct.

In any case, the knight's jump between the stones he played at moves 39 and 40 is easy to cut. The problem is, as I alluded to in my post last night, and have confirmed over my attempts to read some variations, is that my cutting stones end up being far weaker than the group I'm trying to attack, which rather limits what I can do as I have to nurse them, when I want to be attacking! For example:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . 4 , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 2 X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

looks forced to me, but after white is well on the run while my cutting stones look forlorn - I can probably make them escape easily enough, but it all takes too much time. (I'm not necessarily claiming that is his best move here - but I have the same problem in all lines.)

That's not my only sequence to cut, but the other one, while not leaving me quite as weak as the above, suffers from much the same problem:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . 3 2 O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

- this is slightly better in that white also has to look after O6 (it's also a cutting stone; if I capture it I have no more weaknesses), but it's easy enough for him to protect and one extra move isn't going to make my cutting stone secure.

The move I've chosen, then, is an attempt to cut white somewhere, while avoiding being saddled with a very weak group of cutting stones. Essentially, it makes miai of cutting the knight's jump, as above, or cutting the two space jump which separates O6 from the live group below. For example, if white plays the natural (to me) cut at P5, he has to deal with:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . 5 7 O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 O 3 X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 1 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

- which is so spectactularly good for me (particularly in comparison with the diagrams I gave above) that of course white won't allow it. But even white's better replies (at least, the ones I've seen), allow me to cut something and reach a position where I feel I have at least even chances to achieve something in the coming fight. For example (and I'm not claiming the following sequences represent best play by either side, there's just examples of the kind of thing that *might* happen):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 O 2 X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

or

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . 3 . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . 7 2 O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 5 X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 1 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Oh well. I'm done writing now - I'm sure it's mostly rubbish (as you can probably tell, I have no confidence whatsoever in my go right now), but at least it's a window on my messed-up view of the position

this is pretty much the only move I'm keeping my stones connected, keeping him contained, & building a wall, its also a proverb respond to attachment with a hane. i picked the hane on that side because it also helps build a wall but on the opposite side it wouldn't have the same effect.

quick var

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm42 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . 3 . O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 2 X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . 5 4 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

the cross cut doesn't look that interesting it gives me a weak group to attack,
hmmn maybe a ladder
there are a lot of ways this can play out lets get more information first

OK, that's not a move I put into my diagrams above, although I certainly did consider it. It's admittedly much better for white than most of the outcomes I showed - but this is still better for me than the results I'd have got from cutting the knight's jump directly - because my O5 stone injects just enough aji for me to get an extra move in. This is what I expect:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm43 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . 3 2 O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 O 1 X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

- I've not quite decided yet where I'm going to put (more reading needed), but there are several possibilities for me to look at, and I feel sure that at least one of them must lead to something decent. (Note that the ladder towards the upper-left is currently in my favour, if that ends up being important. Although admittedly the N8 net looks like it captures if I don't add a move. )