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 Post subject: 1k-1k game
Post #1 Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 7:58 pm 
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Hello, I'm white in this game, I didn't play too well, but got lucky and won anyway. Any comments will be appreciated.


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 Post subject: Re: 1k-1k game
Post #2 Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 1:09 pm 
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W46 attempts to make a dash of territory with a huge amount of thickness, which is usually a sign something has gone awry. My guess is that the problem is that instead of finishing the joseki by playing a stone near W46 you continued to push black along the side so you could build up thickness, but the thickness isn't immediately useful. Black's groups on the other side are secure so it's hard to effectively attack them, so profiting from your thickness becomes difficult.

W46 gives some profit, at least, but you have a lot of center facing stones that are going to be hard pressed to pay for themselves considering that they mostly gave black the entire left side of the board.

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 Post subject: Re: 1k-1k game
Post #3 Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 6:22 pm 
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W46 is overconcentrated. It should be closer to white's corner, maybe even a shoulder hit. The problem is not trying to make territory with thickness (what else are you going to do with that wall? attack black's bottom corner?), the problem is that you're not ambitious enough.


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 Post subject: Re: 1k-1k game
Post #4 Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 1:41 pm 
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Thanks, yea, i overlooked his cut here so i wasn't sure exactly what to do after that, which led to w46. thanks for the suggestions and help.

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 Post subject: Re: 1k-1k game
Post #5 Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 1:52 pm 
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Shaddy wrote:
The problem is not trying to make territory with thickness (what else are you going to do with that wall? attack black's bottom corner?), the problem is that you're not ambitious enough.


I was thinking he didn't need to build that wall in the first place. Don't build thickness if you can't use it, and all that.

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 Post subject: Re: 1k-1k game
Post #6 Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 3:41 pm 
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Numsgil wrote:
...
I was thinking he didn't need to build that wall in the first place. Don't build thickness if you can't use it, and all that.


I was thinking much the same myself. I think that it went wrong with the attachment at move 26. It seems to be completely the wrong direction.

Move 24 is a bit ambitious - but not necessarily a bad move - which commits white to a dual attack on the left side. To be consistent with that, 26 should be at G17.

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 Post subject: Re: 1k-1k game
Post #7 Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 12:42 am 
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I think the thickness is ok, but it was used wrong, and I agree that 26 is better elsewhere. G17 is probably what I'd play at 26 too.

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 Post subject: Re: 1k-1k game
Post #8 Posted: Mon May 09, 2011 9:39 am 
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What sort of thing should you be aiming for with that thickness, then? There aren't weak groups to attack (yet), and black's bottom corner is flat (so no moyo to reduce, really), and black's top corner is a pretty secure moyo. In the game black decided to make white's thickness useful by invading, but black doesn't really need to invade because he has good territory going for himself. The only real danger for black is ignoring the center long enough for the whole thing to become a white moyo, but even then I think the game would still be competitive.

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 Post subject: Re: 1k-1k game
Post #9 Posted: Mon May 09, 2011 1:46 pm 
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Numsgil wrote:
What sort of thing should you be aiming for with that thickness, then? There aren't weak groups to attack...

If you have a wall, and there is nothing to attack, sketch out a rediculously large area. Then he will have to invade, and you will have something to attack. To this end, I like Shaddy's suggestion of the shoulder hit at 46 ( M4 might work also ). It blocks the participation of the only safe group that he has, and thus ensures that anything else can be attacked.

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 Post subject: Re: 1k-1k game
Post #10 Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 9:05 pm 
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I think it starts a little earlier. White gets off to a poor start on the right. W6 (Q6) is a 2nd rate choice. Modern is S16 while the if White is going to extend up the right and protect with a 1-space jump, the combo of Q7 and R11 is clearly better than Q6/R10 - White's area is one line wider while Black's is one line narrower.

W22 (K17) should have been at G16. K17 simply limits the extension from the low stone at P17 = not interesting and only weakly connected to the upper left as well. With G16 in place it becomes much more difficult for Black to approach the lower left, White's pincer will be much more threatening in the upper left. With this thinking W26 can't be at G17 = too painful. In effect White has played G17 at W22 and then responded to G15 with an extension to K17! W24 will attack above or below. With Black responding at G15, the target has to be the C6 stone.

W26 (D6) gives up the attack in exchange for something on the outside. Black offers to settle things quickly with C4 and White accepts the offer. Should W30 (C5) have been C3 instead to keep more pressure on Black in this area? Maybe.

W46 is hard because the bottom is so wide. In general White has to try something here though. The weak point at D3 means that Black has a high probability of living after invading behind a too aggressive W46. Against the shoulder hit does Black just jump to M3? How about W46 at M4?

W48 (K8) looks too optimistic - W46 is not strong enough. My instinct would be to play L5 and try to expand the right-side White territory while chasing Black along the wall toward the top. White will wedge into an attachment at either J4 or L6.

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 Post subject: Re: 1k-1k game
Post #11 Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 10:53 pm 
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An interesting position occurs in the game after B99 (F1). White played the hane at H1 next but this was potentially an error. In the game, Black answered at G1 then played A1 and A3 to create a gote seki (W106 was not necessary). Seki was good enough prior to Black's unfortunate idea with B107 etc. - if Black had passed on B107, White could have resigned ;-)

Instead of H1, I think White needs to play W100 at B1 in order to ensure the seki. After White's play at H1 in the game, Black chould have thrown in at B1. This seems to put White on the spot. Notice that if White captures at A1, Black simply connects at A3. If White now connects the ko, Black plays G2. This leaves Black with three external liberties (J1, G1, and G10) versus only two shared liberties in the "seki". (Also notice that G1 in the game was a basic mistake in that Black filled one of his own liberties.)

So White can not simply capture and connect the ko. What should White do instead? What is the result of correct play here? It look quite complex to me. :scratch:

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